Tuesday, February 19, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[sandwich]

the FJs were on the easy side for a ToC. (not a coincidence.)

Care to elaborate?

Or did you simply mean "the FJs were on the easy side for a ToC", ergo... "the scores were high"?

My mind immediately interpreted "not a coincidence" to indicate some sort of conspiracy theory on the part of the writers...

[Woof]

yeah, the bot clue was terrible. big frowny face here on that one. surprising neg-neg-stare on PDF. now JPEG, there's an acronym i would not have been surprised to see as a TS.

Yeah, that bot clue was distinctly bad, even by the standards of J! writers.

me too! i was lost on the candle clue, got the others, but still learned some neat stuff. copper and algae. who knew? weirdly, the $800 and $1000 were the only ones where i already knew both the correct response and the helpful hint.

For the record, copper is a good, generic antifungal. This has been recognized for a good long while, leading to the development of "Bordeaux mixture" in the 19th C to ward off fungal blights in French vineyards.

I thought that tonight's trio were definitely at a disadvantage in DJ: they seemed particularly uncomfortable with Shakespeare Wives and the Easel category (or perhaps Al Gore just threw them all off their games). I didn't think that the outsourcing clue was so bad, but maybe that was because I got it.

[This Is Kirk!]

Now if I could only learn to pull the trigger on things like Paul Klee.

I pulled the trigger with Gustav Klimt. Doh! He's Austrian, not Swiss. So close!

[econgator]

My wife, also a Chem prof, was a bit confused that the clue was worded as a plural, but thermodynamics does end in s, doesn't it?

*nod* I mentioned that above. I'm not sure why they though that thermodynamics is the plural of thermodynamic. Physics isn't the plural of physic, it is?

[jpahk]

I wish I could have tagged in for Mr. Quinn during that Shakespeare category. He never seemed to recover after that rough patch.

that should totally be a rule. if a player has the same name as the tournament alternate, they can tag-team.

[reddpen]

Now if I could only learn to pull the trigger on things like Paul Klee.

I pulled the trigger with Gustav Klimt. Doh! He's Austrian, not Swiss. So close!

I pulled the trigger with Joan Miró. Same number of letters as Paul Klee... but he's Catalan Spanish.

Are judges giving credit for fridge over freezer? It's only +400, but my Coryat (28800) could use the boost. That's my second notably subpar score this ToC, following Friday's 27400... and I'm only 2/5 in FJ.

I joined dmleach in mistaking Westminster Abbey for St. Paul's. I join America in laughing at his guess of microwave... but he's laughing all the way to the semis.

Looks like that bread Patrick knew for 1K was lavash -- a NHOI here. Heard of Vinegar Joe Stilwell, but just barely -- he's not gonna poll well.

That Shakespeare cat was rough on this English major, but at least from the couch I clammed the ones I didn't know (all but Petruchio).

The only TS I managed tonight were bot (and I agree it's not a solid clue) and the DD on alfalfa.

Knowing nothing about the semi matchups (not posted as I type), I'll guess Jason K., Colby and Keith make the finals. Especially after last year's debacle, I wouldn't be surprised to see two of them matched up this week. Hope it's not the first two: they seem like the powers this time around.

[PatMorrison]

Yeah, there was an edit there. There was also a noticeable edit in the first few questions of the game as well.
They accepted "Kennedy" because the category was "Joes" whatever.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that GI Joe was the category name, so it makes sense that they would take just Kennedy. I was thinking of GI Joe as just referring to military men, and I don't think I even realized that all 5 clues were about guys named Joe.

Which is why, I think, they asked such a lame-ass bottom row clue. That's one of my wheelhouses and I have never heard of "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell. (attn: Mark Barrett- could we poll him, please?) Seems like they were trying to distribute the Joes over the wars as best they could. Of course, Kennedy was from WW2 already, as was Joe Sullivan. If they had a repeat already, how about Civil? Other than Hooker, there's Johnston from the CSA.

The great Barbara Tuchman wrote a biography of Stillwell, "Stillwell and the American Experience in China, 1911-45." Not up there with "The Proud Tower" or "The Guns of August," but definitely worth a read.

[Jasoni22]

My wife, also a Chem prof, was a bit confused that the clue was worded as a plural, but thermodynamics does end in s, doesn't it?

*nod* I mentioned that above. I'm not sure why they though that thermodynamics is the plural of thermodynamic. Physics isn't the plural of physic, it is?

I believe the British shorten mathematics to maths, though, which I find odd. *shrug*

[MarkBarrett]

For guessing the semifinals since I haven't seen them posted yet:

Jason S.
Keith
Dave

Stephanie
Dan
Colby

Paul
Jason K.
Kristin

This splits up Jason S., Stephanie, and Paul from QF1.
This splits up Keith, Kristin and Dan from QF4
This keeps Dave from Dan and Jason K. who he played in regular play.
This keeps Paul from Keith who he played in regular play.
This splits up the Jasons.
This splits up the 9-7-7 time winners.
This separates the women.

[Omnivore]

I said nothing about the scores for one game, or even how I felt about the clues. Those mean nothing. I said it was obvious the clues were easier than previous ToC's, and that was apparent from game 1. A cursory glance at that game thread shows one poster on the first page stating it was very easy for a ToC.

I think all of us have watched enough regular games and ToC's to quickly realize things were different this year.

Just speaking for myself, and I'm not the savviest of in-game strategists, but the idea of assessing the relative difficulty of the boards while up there scrambling to answer questions (and then assuming that difficulty level would hold for the other QFs I couldn't see) would have been way beyond my powers.

From the game theory perspective, I do think it will be really interesting to see how this year's WC outcome affects the betting in the next ToC, just as seeing Brian bet his way out of the semis last year (and Kara chill her way in) might have led to conservative wagering this year.

[stevo4212]

Whew, Professor Jass, how's that for surviving by the hair of your chin? Nice.

[Bamaman]

I've heard of Vinegar Joe, but didn't get it during the game.

This was my first correct FJ during the TOC. But other than Monday, all of them have been gettable for me.

[silverscreentest]

I believe the British shorten mathematics to maths, though, which I find odd. *shrug*

And why do they make singular the collective name for soccer, cricket, etc. as sport?

I got FJ from playing Civilization, which I recommend as a fun way to learn some history.

[dmleach]

StevenH: Congrats to Dave! Way to represent the A-T-L!!!! I'll be rooting for you in the semis!

Thanks so much! I'm delighted to have advanced in the tournament, particularly against such tough competition. I can honestly say there's not one person in the field I didn't want to win the whole thing. Now, mind you, there's one person in particular I'm rooting for.

StevenH: Dave almost got into trouble with negging, too, but I am glad that he was able to recover

Yes I did, and that's the thing I really tried to focus on with my training for the Tournament. Nevertheless I missed five in this game. One was a DD, one was "globalization," but the other three were just me being a little too guess happy.

Everybody I've ever met: microwave

Yeah, yeah. I tried to get everyone at my viewing party to cover their ears before that one. No dice.

MarkBarrett: Nice get by Dave with Sullivan for the WWII brothers.

Thanks! I grew up in Sullivan County, and so I think that's one reason their name has stuck with me over the years.

Johnblue: "Your Highness" is one flick I've never heard of. Is it animated?

Nope; it's a 2011 stoner flick. Different meaning of "highness" altogether.

Golf: you answer FJ's correctly in your sleep

If only. I'm a little better than 50%, both as a contestant and in training on old FJs from the Archive. I'm 2/5 in the quarterfinals, blanking out and not being able to pull the name of Ramses in time, guessing Guggenheim instead of MOMA, and being clueless on Yerevan. I'd much rather neutralize Final Jeopardy, either by locking the game or ending up right behind the leader, much like Ashok did to me.

Golf: But shouldn't the players realize at some point during the game that the clues are not of typical ToC quality, rather more like regular games and therefore scores across the board will be higher?

I think that's something that's easier to judge at home than it is on stage. The first time it crossed my mind that these boards might be easier than I expected was one particular clue in the very last game of the Tournament (no spoiler: everybody stuck around for the finale).

falsifieddocuments: did the producers let you watch all the semifinal games, or did they make a policy change after the teen tournament?

Yes, all the players were in the audience during the semifinals.

[skullturf]

I joined dmleach in mistaking Westminster Abbey for St. Paul's.

I did exactly the same thing. I must have thought, "There's basically only one super-famous church in London." Not really true.

That Shakespeare cat was rough on this English major, but at least from the couch I clammed the ones I didn't know (all but Petruchio).

I did exactly the same thing. Normally, when I go 1/5 in any category, it's a sign that there's a serious gap in my knowledge base. But the contestants did poorly in that category too, so maybe it was partly that it was just tough?

Mark Antony entered my mind for the relevant clue *after* I heard one wrong response from a contestant, but I wasn't confident enough to say it.

Shakespeare is a weak point for me, and there are specific ways in which I should brush up on it.

However, is it perhaps fair to say that this particular Shakespeare category went a little beyond the usual?

For example, my impression is that for, say, the play Othello, the only "super"-obvious character names that you absolutely "have" to know are Desdemona and Iago? And knowing the name of Iago's wife is kind of one step more obscure?

Nevertheless, memorizing names of Shakespeare characters is something to go on the short list of study material.

[kickerofelves]

Johnblue: "Your Highness" is one flick I've never heard of. Is it animated?

Nope; it's a 2011 stoner flick. Different meaning of "highness" altogether.

I've seen it. It was terrible. So terrible that I've apparently managed to remove the title from my brain.

[kickerofelves]

I pulled the trigger with Joan Miró. Same number of letters as Paul Klee... but he's Catalan Spanish.

Yep. Me too.

Heard of Vinegar Joe Stilwell, but just barely -- he's not gonna poll well.

Heard of him, and I was nearly there, till my brain snagged on 'Vinegar Bend' Mizell, who pitched for the 1960 Pirates...

-a.

[davey]

However, is it perhaps fair to say that this particular Shakespeare category went a little beyond the usual?

For example, my impression is that for, say, the play Othello, the only "super"-obvious character names that you absolutely "have" to know are Desdemona and Iago? And knowing the name of Iago's wife is kind of one step more obscure?

Nevertheless, memorizing names of Shakespeare characters is something to go on the short list of study material.

Emilia is an important character in Othello - not only Iago's wife but Desdemona's lady-in-waiting - and she's there until the end.

Calpurnia is a unique name, so it sticks in my head, even though I haven't seen or read Julius Caesar in many years.
I thought the toughest one was Octavia - a more common name, and I don't remember her role in the play. Like Patrick, I said Brutus.

By the time Hippolyta (currently misspelled in the archive, BTW) rolled around, I blame the classical sound of the name after 2 Romans for throwing me, even though I've seen Midsummer as recently as last year, and more than any other Shakespeare play. I pulled the trigger and drew a blank - all I could think of was the classical figure Hippolytus. But she's an important person in the play, though she disappears for much of it - during which the actress playing her nearly always doubles as Titania.

[dhkendall]

I thought the toughest one was Octavia - a more common name, and I don't remember her role in the play. Like Patrick, I said Brutus.

Whereas it was my only get, and an insta- at that, for some reason, I have her name inexorably linked with Mark Anthony's. Guess it's ymmv.

[bpmod]

... Hippolyta (currently misspelled in the archive, BTW)

Did you submit a correction suggestion?

Brian