Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr »

That's a terrible idea from several standpoints, AP. First of all people pay to get out to Culver City to be on the show. It wouldn't be fair to get them out there and then tell them they couldn't go on. Second of all, they do play a mock game (albeit a very abbreviated one) during the auditions. Also, I'm guessing our standards for a contestant are much, much higher than the viewing public at large's. Some other people probably noticed Friday's game wasn't up to the usual standards, but probably very few did. And finally, while we don't know what gets left on the figurative cutting room floor, I don't think I've ever heard of a contestant going out there and being so overwhelmed that they couldn't shoot the episode. So in the scheme of things, the number of out-and-out contestant mis-fires seems to consist of an extremely low percentage of people.

And besides, you'll never hear me criticize Maggie. I'd prefer to mis-identify a woman as pregnant. I want to live.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

I just now got to see the game. A few random comments.

I heard "freeloader" and thought that was the job based on the description.

I knew they would retroactively neg the King response.

I saw the movie, but did not get perfect storm. I thought it was going to relate to the name of the hurricane, which they did not give.

I liked Alan (love those older guys). He was the only one to make the correct bet Friday. Today his bet puts him a dollar ahead of Patrick's MSBIW score, although Mary's zero bet made that a moo point.

An instaget FJ for me. I was worried we'd have another Catalina Island FJ. But I agree it is tough for non sports fans. Canton probably isn't going to be an Ohio city you'd pick at random.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

Austin Powers wrote: I agree that Alan in particular seemed especially ill-suited for TV, and I reminded again how big a farce Friday's show was. But how much is that his fault? He apparently passed the test. As an older white male who works on computers, he's exactly NOT the kind of person the show usually puts on. So he probably got put on because they needed to fill their Ohio quota after doing tryouts there.
He seemed better Monday though. A bit more at ease.

Biggest worry I have is going Kaufman on stage. (Mighty Mouse Kaufman, not Great Gatsby Kaufman, that is.)

Incidentally, I didn't hear *any* of the contestant interviews. Right as they started, I got hit with a flash flood warning (for areas nowhere near me, of course) which conveniently stopped the second the interviews ended.

And an additional aside... Flash flood warnings? In So. Cal.? In JULY?
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by legendneverdies »

Bamaman wrote:

I saw the movie, but did not get perfect storm. I thought it was going to relate to the name of the hurricane, which they did not give.
Having canoed my way to work for three days via the city rowboats that week of Halloween 1991(the place I worked at for most of my adult life considered us city employees and had the canoes pick us up), I think the storm was classified as a Nor'easter IIRC. It occurred within a day or two of when Sandy hit 21 years later.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Austin Powers »

alietr wrote:That's a terrible idea from several standpoints, AP. First of all people pay to get out to Culver City to be on the show. It wouldn't be fair to get them out there and then tell them they couldn't go on. Second of all, they do play a mock game (albeit a very abbreviated one) during the auditions. Also, I'm guessing our standards for a contestant are much, much higher than the viewing public at large's. Some other people probably noticed Friday's game wasn't up to the usual standards, but probably very few did. And finally, while we don't know what gets left on the figurative cutting room floor, I don't think I've ever heard of a contestant going out there and being so overwhelmed that they couldn't shoot the episode. So in the scheme of things, the number of out-and-out contestant mis-fires seems to consist of an extremely low percentage of people.

And besides, you'll never hear me criticize Maggie. I'd prefer to mis-identify a woman as pregnant. I want to live.
Not sure where you got the part about not letting someone on. This isn't The Chase. Once you're out there I think it is the show's responsibility to coach you up.

I think whatever they are doing currently can be expanded. Too often we see contestants taking too long to pick. How many episodes a week is that observed? I'd say two. I'd say there is a decent percentage of contestants - maybe 20% - who do something clearly "off" like that. Maybe I just notice it more, but it seems like this happens more and more.

And, this is subjective, but I think a lot of contestants look stiff out there, but they wouldn't if they had another game in. Alan had some gaffes today but he was much improved over the previous episode.

I just think it would be more enjoyable for all if the contestants looked a bit more at ease out there.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Austin Powers »

dhkendall wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:
MaryN wrote:Contestant checking in (bet you can guess which one :) ).

I am so not a sports person, so when I saw that FJ category, I knew my only hope was that both of them would get it wrong. I figured I had about a 5% chance of getting it right - hence the $0 bet. And they almost did! Close, but not close enough. Oh well - it was a lot of fun and a great experience.
Pretty simple. You made the right bet. Sometimes folks will have low confidence and bet some round amount, like $4000, to reflect that they really don't think they know it. Then they lose by $200.

If you don't know sports, don't bet! More people should be so cagey.
That's the thing, though, I suck at sports, but I'm a wizard at geography. I had no idea if it would require more sports knowledge than geography knowledge. (Would you have told someone with lots of sports knowledge but no geography knowledge, not to bet, based in the category?)
Do you recall the FJ that asked to name the state that borders the Mississippi River that has two NFl franchises? That might be a good personal metric for you.

It's like that episode where the lady in the lead bet zero because she really didn't know classical music. It's not optimal, but it's better than losing the MSB from the lead.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by KurtWeber »

jeff6286 wrote:
KurtWeber wrote:
teapot37 wrote:I too heard "freeloader" as the occupation and laughed quite heartily at that. It's certainly one way to not say "unemployed".
I initially heard that too, but then realized it was "preloader"--the fact that I myself had that job for a while meant it was in my head.
I've held both positions, both freeloader and preloader. I much prefer the former, but the latter does pay a bit better. A bit.

For any curious, I'm guessing Patrick works for UPS, because they use the term preloader, and I don't think FedEx does.
I worked for FedEx, and the ad I responded to said "pre-load."
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by KurtWeber »

bpmod wrote:
KurtWeber wrote:Question, incidentally: had Alan won today with, say, $10,001, and not continued to win after that, would his take-home winnings have been $13,001 (the $3000 minimum first-place prize for Friday--if my memory's failed and it's not $3000 then change the numbers around to reflect the appropriate amount--plus his $10,001 from today), or would they have given him $12,200, figuring that per-day average of $6,100 comes out to more than the $3,000 minimum guarantee?
There is no minimum guarantee.

Brian
Ah, yeah, you're right--for some reason I was thinking that the consolation prizes for 2 and 3 were extended into a minimum for 1.

It's kind of wrong, though, in that a one-time champion who wins with $1 and finishes third the next day with a $1000 consolation prize actually comes away with less than a second-place finisher.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

KurtWeber wrote:It's kind of wrong, though, in that a one-time champion who wins with $1 and finishes third the next day with a $1000 consolation prize actually comes away with less than a second-place finisher.
It's sad, but I wouldn't call it wrong. I'd guess almost any second-place finisher in that position would happily forfeit $999 of the consolation prize to change places with the winner. But no first-place finisher would agree to the switch. So by overwhelming consensus, the first-place finisher got the better prize that day. It just didn't work out.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett »

Austin Powers wrote:
alietr wrote:That's a terrible idea from several standpoints, AP. First of all people pay to get out to Culver City to be on the show. It wouldn't be fair to get them out there and then tell them they couldn't go on. Second of all, they do play a mock game (albeit a very abbreviated one) during the auditions. Also, I'm guessing our standards for a contestant are much, much higher than the viewing public at large's. Some other people probably noticed Friday's game wasn't up to the usual standards, but probably very few did. And finally, while we don't know what gets left on the figurative cutting room floor, I don't think I've ever heard of a contestant going out there and being so overwhelmed that they couldn't shoot the episode. So in the scheme of things, the number of out-and-out contestant mis-fires seems to consist of an extremely low percentage of people.

And besides, you'll never hear me criticize Maggie. I'd prefer to mis-identify a woman as pregnant. I want to live.
Not sure where you got the part about not letting someone on. This isn't The Chase. Once you're out there I think it is the show's responsibility to coach you up.

I think whatever they are doing currently can be expanded. Too often we see contestants taking too long to pick. How many episodes a week is that observed? I'd say two. I'd say there is a decent percentage of contestants - maybe 20% - who do something clearly "off" like that. Maybe I just notice it more, but it seems like this happens more and more.

And, this is subjective, but I think a lot of contestants look stiff out there, but they wouldn't if they had another game in. Alan had some gaffes today but he was much improved over the previous episode.

I just think it would be more enjoyable for all if the contestants looked a bit more at ease out there.
At the four J! auditions I did the CCs may have felt they had seen enough to evaluate a player. I saw players answer as few as three in the mock game and speak no more than 30 seconds about themselves and their dreams if they won big bucks. Other game shows must be more rigourous about selecting contestants. I'm not complaining as it worked for me to get a shot.

What if the J! audition had next day callbacks? The CCs could spend an extra day in town and gather more information to narrow down potential players? Make it clear to audtioneers from the start that the process could be a two-day affair. If you don't like it then don't apply.

Only so much can be done on taping day although the bad habits have to be present in practice on the stage. Take that player aside and give them reminders about expected game play before they play for real. There is time.

The way it is now I suspect one of the CCs is too lenient about certain factors and players are not rated correctly at the auditions. That's fine though as I like the variety of players to include some in over their heads and some ultra competitive and some not going to be fan favorites. The percentage of good contestants is high.

I wonder how many points Alan had in being selected just because he had a good voice?
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

It would be funny to see the post game scores flash up with the winner having $1 and the other two having $2,000 and $1,000.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by legendneverdies »

Bamaman wrote:It would be funny to see the post game scores flash up with the winner having $1 and the other two having $2,000 and $1,000.
Haven't there been a couple of wins under $2K since May 2002? Maybe they should show the multi day champ's total winnings on the podiums at show's end(during Paula Tupper game four, they alternated in showing her game four total and her four-day total during the end credits)ISTR a win with under $1K(not counting the recent three way zero tie on the 2/7/2013 episode)
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer »

I keep forgetting — who was the player not too long ago that won something like $599 on their first episode, then came in third on their next? I know it was a sub-$1000 amount that they won with.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Paucle »

Bamaman wrote:Today his bet puts him a dollar ahead of Patrick's MSBIW score, although Mary's zero bet made that a moo point.
And you didn't want to argue against cows as they were out standing in their field?
(OK, I'm sure you meant "moot..."
which of course means you meant it was academic. Yes, I'm stubborn and refuse to accept that morphed definition of moot.)
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by jkbrat »

John Boy wrote: There have been a lot of players in recent months who didn't seem to be up to the show's usual standards
While I don't disagree with this observation in general, I do feel that the specific examples cited are not really the best evidence for it.

I thought Alan was a good player. He made an aggressive DD bet to try to catch up to Patrick at the start of the DJ round. Unfortunately it didn't work out for him, but instead of being flustered by the loss of his entire $4200, he takes it in stride and comes right back to pick up "lothario" for $2000 (everyone here get that one correct?). He came up with a great (but, alas, incorrect) guess of "The Dixie Chicks" for a clue about a women's band with an animal in the name. (To me, that's real evidence of thinking while in the midst of the game, as opposed to just Pavloving previously memorized material.) He picked up the rebound after Mary's neg of "The Alley Cats", coming up with "The Stray Cats" - isn't this what we always gripe about players not doing? Similarly, on Friday's game
Spoiler
He came up with "Serbo-Croatia" for his DD - OK, not exactly Yugoslavia, but at least he took a shot at it instead of shrugging his shoulders and just saying "I don't know this one flat-out, so I'm not even going to try to come up with a guess" - again, something contestants are often criticized for.
Which is in contrast to the last DD in the 7/15/13 game:
Spoiler
where It seemed like the contestant may have seen "aesculus hippocastanum" and just said "hmm, don't recognize that, don't speak Latin, so I have no chance at getting this one" instead of thinking "well, let's look a little closer, maybe I can pull enough out to come up with any kind of a guess". I say that only because it seemed very sussable given "chestnut" and recognizing hippo- -> horse, but only if you can avoid the I-don't-know-this-one panic and think on your feet.
John Boy wrote:first he wins his game because both of his opponents badly botch their FJ wagers.
But he didn't botch his wager.

And, to be fair to his opponents, I think most people are unaware of wagering strategy prior to discovering this group (which usually happens right after they finish taping :? )
John Boy wrote: in this game he blows one clue by giving TMI, rendering a correct answer incorrect;
The entire explanation for that category consisted of "Next, '60s SPEECHES". There was no indication of whether they wanted contestants to identify the speech or the speaker (or both?). Having no way of knowing which to choose, Alan provided both (unfortunately for him). If he had done that in a category entitled '60's SPEECH MAKERS or after hearing AT say "We want you to name the speaker", then that would be a different story.
John Boy wrote: then blows another by failing to answer in the form of a question.
Again, I have to disagree a bit based on the particular clue to which he was responding. Most responses on Jeopardy! are single words or 2- or 3-word phrases. I think an 8-word response (and a tongue twister, at that!) is fairly unusual. The difference is that if a contestant has a 1-word response and forgets to phrase it in the form of a question, the difference is very noticeable and the contestant usually corrects it. But the longer the response is, the less noticeable the lack of the leading "what is" becomes. Also, the longer the response, the more likely it is that the contestant will assume that they have erred in the response itself (again, it was a tongue twister!), so the focus of any self-correction will probably be the response, not the phrasing. Given that he didn't make any other phrasing errors during his two games, I'm very inclined to believe that he was tripped up by the unusually long and difficult response rather than it being due to a lack of familiarity with the game.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by floridagator »

Austin Powers wrote:
floridagator wrote:Cool that there was a clue about Kate Middleton on the day the new king was born, and also an Alan Page question on the day the first woman on the Minnesota Supreme Court died.
Well that last thing is not really a coincidence is it?
Obviously it IS a coincidence. I think they both were, although they could have sprinkled clues about William & Kate around her due date.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Austin Powers »

jkbrat wrote: The entire explanation for that category consisted of "Next, '60s SPEECHES". There was no indication of whether they wanted contestants to identify the speech or the speaker (or both?). Having no way of knowing which to choose, Alan provided both (unfortunately for him). If he had done that in a category entitled '60's SPEECH MAKERS or after hearing AT say "We want you to name the speaker", then that would be a different story.
That thought crossed my mind, but isn't it safer just to give the speechmaker. How many speeches, off the top of your head, have formal names? And how many of those are from the 60s?
jkbrat wrote:Again, I have to disagree a bit based on the particular clue to which he was responding. Most responses on Jeopardy! are single words or 2- or 3-word phrases. I think an 8-word response (and a tongue twister, at that!) is fairly unusual. The difference is that if a contestant has a 1-word response and forgets to phrase it in the form of a question, the difference is very noticeable and the contestant usually corrects it. But the longer the response is, the less noticeable the lack of the leading "what is" becomes. Also, the longer the response, the more likely it is that the contestant will assume that they have erred in the response itself (again, it was a tongue twister!), so the focus of any self-correction will probably be the response, not the phrasing. Given that he didn't make any other phrasing errors during his two games, I'm very inclined to believe that he was tripped up by the unusually long and difficult response rather than it being due to a lack of familiarity with the game.
Perhaps, but if you just start anything you respond with, "What is..." then this doesn't happen. I think what you say makes sense, but what he did was really the most preventable of mistakes.
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by jeff6286 »

KurtWeber wrote:
jeff6286 wrote:
KurtWeber wrote:
I initially heard that too, but then realized it was "preloader"--the fact that I myself had that job for a while meant it was in my head.
I've held both positions, both freeloader and preloader. I much prefer the former, but the latter does pay a bit better. A bit.

For any curious, I'm guessing Patrick works for UPS, because they use the term preloader, and I don't think FedEx does.
I worked for FedEx, and the ad I responded to said "pre-load."
Oops, I stand corrected. I guess it's a more general term than I thought. Anyone ever worked for the U.S.P.S.? Do they call it pre-loading, loading envelopes/packages onto cars/trucks for delivery?
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Re: Monday, July 22, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

It also sounded like he said "I had a dream", so even in getting it wrong, he got it wrong.
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