Ideal changes for Season 28

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Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Nicky » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:22 pm

I posted this on the new Wheel of Fortune board in response to a J! change thread, but I'm posting it here too since of course it's more appropriate. Let me know what you all think!

1. FINALLY change the font for the clues and the categories. it's becoming old.

2. Change the dollar amounts again, maybe instead of twice what they were before 11/26/01, 2 1/2 times as much, so therefore 250/500/750/1000/1250 in the Jeopardy Round, 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 in the Double Jeopardy Round

3. Don't interrupt the Jeopardy Round, except for a commercial break, and move the interviews to the beginning. And maybe make it four commercial breaks, without the promo that's in the middle of the third and last commercial break. Instead maybe have a commercial break between Final Jeopardy and when the correct response i and the contestants' wagers/final scores are revealed. Here's how I would do it:

Interviews
Jeopardy Round category reveals
Commercial Break #1 midway through the Jeopardy Round, as it is now
As it is now, end of J! Round, commercial break #2, DJ! and FJ! category revealed
Commercial Break #3 (no promo)
FJ! question revealed, and contestants writing their answers to the think music
Commercial Break #4
FJ! response/contestants' answers/final scores/champion revealed
Credits

4. Don't ignore clues that there are no time for. Like with Wheel of Fortune's speedup round, if there are no time for those clues, find a way to show them. Maybe at the start of the commercial break, show the clues and the categories they came from with the correct response written below. And maybe let the correct response come a few seconds after the question so at least viewers can try to come up with the correct response before it's revealed

4A. Also, one thing I don't understand is, as bad enough as it is that not all clues have to be revealed, why is there a time limit for the J! Round? The DJ! I completely understand, as it's the end, but why the J! Round, which is nowhere near the end? Is there a rule that it has to be over by the 11th or 12th minute (I've kept track). Is it to always give hope that there will be time for all clues to be revealed in the DJ! Round? If so, that's a bit crazy especially since many times, the Double Jeopardy! Round had all clues revealed, but the J! Round didn't!

5. Make more use of the newly added screen that's between where Alex stands and the panel. It's a great addition to the set, and it's bigger than anything else on the set. Right It's only used for the FJ! category reveal, nothing that would be nice in a big size, and at the start of FJ!, it still shows up in the spot it used to during the reveal. And i Maybe show some clues coming from there. If you keep track, the clues that are shown coming from the board zooming out are $200/400 and $1000/2000 clues, as well as if the last clue read isn't exactly $200/400 before it, while the $400/800, $600/1200, and $800/1600 clues that are read immediately after the ones in the same category $200/400 before it are with the big shot of the dollar amount. For the latter group, instead show those dollar amounts and the clues on that screen. Also, the Daily Double sign zooming out from there rather than the board might not be a bad idea.

6. Show more than just white with a blue background for scores. Right now, the only time we see different colors are the red background instead for the negative scores (in the red), and the $1000 and $2000 in blue with a white background for the 2nd and 3rd place totals. How about, like they used to change the contestant backgrounds from blue to red for the DJ! Round, change the scores to blue with a white background for DJ! (and red with a white background when in the red). Like with that screen, we want to see tweaks in scoreboard colors more!

7. Allow the TT winner back in the TOC. And maybe even tweak Kids Week to make it a tournament and allow that winner back in the TOC. In order to do that, maybe, like with the Celebrity Invitational finals week, have three semifinals Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and have the three winners in a 2-day final Thursday and Friday.

8. Don't have Kids Week in July, or any other non-November/February/May month. Attach it to a tournament like the TOC, like all other special weeks are (for instance, the Celebrity tournament semifinals and finals attached to the May 2010 TOC, and Watson IBM Challenge attached to the February 2011 TT). Although I am hoping that the Teachers Tournament continues, which would mean sometimes having it along with the TOC, TT, and CC. If that should happen, maybe the Teachers Tournament or one of the other three could be the first or last two weeks of the season (Kids Week was three weeks too early), while the other three are in November/February/May. or have a four week interruption for both tournaments. In fact, in every season, there could be something attached to all three tournaments in all three regular months. Here's an idea of it for next season:

November 2011: Celebrity Jeopardy attached to TOC
February 2012: Kids Week attached to TT
May 2012: Teachers Tournament attached to CC

What do you think of all these change ideas? Sadly, I don't think any of them will happen, especially since there's really been no real change, except in the set, since September 2003 and no game rule change since November 26, 2001.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Rex Kramer » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:49 pm

Nicky wrote:3. Don't interrupt the Jeopardy Round, except for a commercial break, and move the interviews to the beginning.
That was how it used to be done, at the beginning of the Trebek era. I prefer the current timing; it gives the audience a chance to see the players in action before learning more about them, and it gives the challengers a (trust me, much-needed) opportunity to mentally regroup early in the game.
Nicky wrote:7. Allow the TT winner back in the TOC. And maybe even tweak Kids Week to make it a tournament and allow that winner back in the TOC. In order to do that, maybe, like with the Celebrity Invitational finals week, have three semifinals Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and have the three winners in a 2-day final Thursday and Friday.
There has only ever been one Kids' Week contestant who could conceivably have competed in a ToC with any kind of chance of winning, and of course now she can't play any more. That's one kid every 25 years or so, and I seriously doubt that that rate is going to improve. I don't think inviting kids to the ToC would be healthy for either the Tournament or the kids.

Rex

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by --Pete » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:34 pm

Hi,

OK, I'll bite. :)
Nicky wrote: 1. ... change the font ...
Change for change's sake. The presently used font is clear and legible. If they do change it, as long as they change it to something equally clear, it doesn't really matter.
Nicky wrote: 2. Change the dollar amounts ...
Perhaps, but I don't think Jeopardy! is as much about the money as it is about the competition. I don't think increasing the money would bring forth any more or better contestants. If, somehow, increasing the money would increase the viewing audience, then that would be good in that it would help to ensure the continued existence of the show.

I would like to see the 2nd and 3rd place finishers actually get what they've won, with perhaps guaranteed minima of 2000 and 1000. That might change the strategy in the betting in FJ.
Nicky wrote: 3. ... Here's how I would do it: ...
Interviews first would be a mistake. Most people do not watch the game for the interviews. You want to lead with something that grabs the audience's attention. Then, once they've been hooked, you can back off a bit. Also, once the audience has watched the players play for a bit, it will be more interested in the players.
Nicky wrote: 4. Don't ignore clues that there are no time for.
There is no such thing. In the tournaments, they always get to all the clues during the quarter finals. They do this to give all contestants a fair chance for the wild-card positions. If they can get to all the clues for those games, they can do it for all. It would need some planning (balance a category of long clues with one of short clues) and some post production editing.
Nicky wrote: 5. Make more use of the newly added screen ...
Sorry; I tried but couldn't really parse that block of text.
Nicky wrote: 6. Show more than just white with a blue background for scores. ...
More (pointless) change for the sake of change.
Nicky wrote: 7. Allow the TT winner back in the TOC. And maybe even tweak Kids Week to make it a tournament and allow that winner back in the TOC. ...
Without changing the TOC format, this would eat up two more slots from the 15. While the teens and the kids are impressive, they aren't really in the same league as the adult contestants who've won a slot into the TOC.

Perhaps what would make sense would be to let the winner of any of these tournaments come back as a regular contestant and let them earn a spot on the TOC by playing and winning in the regular game.
Nicky wrote: What do you think of all these change ideas?
I think there are more important and substantive things they could work on. Such as getting all 61 clues into each show. Such as getting clue writers who know the difference between a solar system and a galaxy. Such as rethinking how the buzzer works. Such as deemphasizing French.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:39 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:
Nicky wrote:7. Allow the TT winner back in the TOC. And maybe even tweak Kids Week to make it a tournament and allow that winner back in the TOC. In order to do that, maybe, like with the Celebrity Invitational finals week, have three semifinals Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and have the three winners in a 2-day final Thursday and Friday.
There has only ever been one Kids' Week contestant who could conceivably have competed in a ToC with any kind of chance of winning, and of course now she can't play any more. That's one kid every 25 years or so, and I seriously doubt that that rate is going to improve. I don't think inviting kids to the ToC would be healthy for either the Tournament or the kids.
Rex
Not many teens did much better. Eric "Powerhouse" Newhouse is a good example of a standout teen champion. (1989 TT winner, ToC semi-finalist, 1990 Super J! semi-finalist, 1998 TRT champion, 2002 M$M Finalist and 2005 UToC competitor). There's already a lack of room for the Tournament, with 13 of main run people. We don't need to tighten the field anymore.
4. Don't ignore clues that there are no time for. Like with Wheel of Fortune's speedup round, if there are no time for those clues, find a way to show them. Maybe at the start of the commercial break, show the clues and the categories they came from with the correct response written below. And maybe let the correct response come a few seconds after the question so at least viewers can try to come up with the correct response before it's revealed
This has absolutely no value.
2. Change the dollar amounts again, maybe instead of twice what they were before 11/26/01, 2 1/2 times as much, so therefore 250/500/750/1000/1250 in the Jeopardy Round, 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 in the Double Jeopardy Round
I'm waiting for Season 36 for such a change, and it would be in my preference DJ -> J and DJ being double the current DJ totals. It's too early to change the wages.
1. FINALLY change the font for the clues and the categories. it's becoming old.
There is nothing wrong with them, they've adjusted well set after set. Old has a place in game shows, new does not.

6. Show more than just white with a blue background for scores. Right now, the only time we see different colors are the red background instead for the negative scores (in the red), and the $1000 and $2000 in blue with a white background for the 2nd and 3rd place totals. How about, like they used to change the contestant backgrounds from blue to red for the DJ! Round, change the scores to blue with a white background for DJ! (and red with a white background when in the red). Like with that screen, we want to see tweaks in scoreboard colors more!
The current process works just fine, why fix what's not broken?
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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by hanzz » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:05 pm

There is no such thing. In the tournaments, they always get to all the clues during the quarter finals. They do this to give all contestants a fair chance for the wild-card positions. If they can get to all the clues for those games, they can do it for all. It would need some planning (balance a category of long clues with one of short clues) and some post production editing.
This is just from my personal experience, but during CC taping, the first day of taping (the quarterfinals) did feel significantly longer than the second day of taping (semis and finals). It might have been jet lag, or the fact that sitting through 3 episodes waiting to see if I was a WC was mentally exhausting, but I just remember that night collapsing into bed. I have no idea what TPTB's reasoning is, perhaps they've taped enough tournaments to notice it as well, but anyway that's just my $0.02 worth of a guess.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Rex Kramer » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:09 pm

legendneverdies wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Nicky wrote:3. Don't interrupt the Jeopardy Round, except for a commercial break, and move the interviews to the beginning.
That was how it used to be done, at the beginning of the Trebek era. .
The contestant interviews never were in the beginning of the show on Trebek J! From 1992-96 or so, they had the contestant interviews after the J! round but before the second commercial break, as opposed to how it is most commonly done. Seinfeld even made a comment on this change back then on his sitcom.
Oh, yes, that's right. Obviously that set-up was not entirely memorable. :)

Rex

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by alamble » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:20 pm

8. Don't have Kids Week in July, or any other non-November/February/May month. Attach it to a tournament like the TOC, like all other special weeks are (for instance, the Celebrity tournament semifinals and finals attached to the May 2010 TOC, and Watson IBM Challenge attached to the February 2011 TT).
Kids Week airs in July for two reasons: #1. It's a sweeps month; and #2, and more importantly, the kids are out of school and can therefore watch the show. There's no reason whatsoever to move it so that it airs during the school year.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by waterloo_guy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:34 pm

Personally, I'd like to see them eliminate kids' week and all other tournaments except the Tournament of Champions. I don't think I have ever found kids or teens on the show to be entertaining and college kids can enter regular competition. And there's certainly no need for things like the Teacher's Tournament.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by waterloo_guy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:38 pm

--Pete wrote:I would like to see the 2nd and 3rd place finishers actually get what they've won, with perhaps guaranteed minima of 2000 and 1000. That might change the strategy in the betting in FJ.
I think it would change more than that. I think you'd get players who might get up to a few thousand and then simply quit playing because they're happy with that amount.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Bamaman » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:24 pm

The reason they only let the winner keep the money is that they want people to actually compete in FJ. They let everyone keep the money on the Fleming version. There was a contestant on then that wanted to win a certain amount to buy an engaement ring and stopped rining in once he achieved that total.

I wouldn't let them keep the money, but I think the prizes for second and third should be increased. Or at least give them a free hotel room. Arrange a deal with a local hotel in exchange for an on air plug.

I could live without the speical tournaments. I used to not watch the Kids Week games until I found the forum and felt I had to watch just so I could be part of the discussion. The Teen and college tournaments aren't much better but they aren't going anywhere. I don't even see the point of the Teachers Tournament.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by hanzz » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:58 pm

Mmm grumble....

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by barandall800 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:39 pm

Bamaman wrote: I could live without the speical tournaments. I used to not watch the Kids Week games until I found the forum and felt I had to watch just so I could be part of the discussion. The Teen and college tournaments aren't much better but they aren't going anywhere. I don't even see the point of the Teachers Tournament.
Although I enjoyed watching the Teachers Tournament, I'm with you there on not seeing much of a point...there are are a fair amount of teachers that already compete on J! already that separating 15 of them from the pool didn't quite make sense. It was a good addition to this year (and it will be interesting to see how Charles does in the ToC), but I wouldn't mind doing without it in the future.

As for the other special tournaments...let's not open that can of worms again. (Remember your remote has an off button, folks...)

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Vanya » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:25 am

waterloo_guy wrote:. And there's certainly no need for things like the Teacher's Tournament.
Especially when it's tainted by a bogus ruling, which taints the next TOC as well.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by jeff6286 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:49 am

Vanya wrote:
waterloo_guy wrote:. And there's certainly no need for things like the Teacher's Tournament.
Especially when it's tainted by a bogus ruling, which taints the next TOC as well.
Could we get a bit of an explanation on this? I seem to have already completely erased the Teacher's Tournament from my mind, so I don't remember what type of bogus ruling occurred in it. A couple of details would be appreciated, and I'm sure it will all come back to me.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by dhkendall » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:30 am

alamble wrote:Kids Week airs in July for two reasons: #1. It's a sweeps month; and #2, and more importantly, the kids are out of school and can therefore watch the show. There's no reason whatsoever to move it so that it airs during the school year.
Most people get J! at around 7:30pm local time, plenty of time for the kids to be out of school if it's aired outside of summer - I get it at 4:30, and mine is among the earliest viewing time of boardies (the daily discussion thread is empty, sometimes not even created yet). My kids are also home from school by then, and have been for about 45 minutes.
waterloo_guy wrote:Personally, I'd like to see them eliminate kids' week and all other tournaments except the Tournament of Champions. I don't think I have ever found kids or teens on the show to be entertaining and college kids can enter regular competition. And there's certainly no need for things like the Teacher's Tournament.
I'm sure you realize this, but I'll say it for those who might not: their main concern is not what we, as devoted fans like, but what's good for ratings. The tournaments are good for ratings, as are kids (just ask any Cousin Oliver). If the kids tournament or any other tournament was bad for ratings, rest assured, they'd have pulled it by now. If it could be proven that ratings would skyrocket, and stay high, if Alex Trebek came out every day in a tutu, guess what change would happen to wardrobe?
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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by seaborgium » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:40 am

Vanya wrote:
waterloo_guy wrote:. And there's certainly no need for things like the Teacher's Tournament.
Especially when it's tainted by a bogus ruling, which taints the next TOC as well.
There is not a one-to-one correspondence between the English Z and the Russian letter shaped like a 3. (Assuming that's what you refer to.)
jeff6286 wrote:Could we get a bit of an explanation on this? I seem to have already completely erased the Teacher's Tournament from my mind, so I don't remember what type of bogus ruling occurred in it. A couple of details would be appreciated, and I'm sure it will all come back to me.
If I assume correctly, Vanya's post pertains to "Doctor Zivago" being accepted when Charles Temple won his semifinal.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Nicky » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:50 am

RoadgeekAdam wrote:
Nicky wrote: 4. Don't ignore clues that there are no time for. Like with Wheel of Fortune's speedup round, if there are no time for those clues, find a way to show them. Maybe at the start of the commercial break, show the clues and the categories they came from with the correct response written below. And maybe let the correct response come a few seconds after the question so at least viewers can try to come up with the correct response before it's revealed
This has absolutely no value.
Why not? All 61 clues should be known! Especially all 30 in the J! Round. Because even if, after reading all 30 clues in the J! Round, there's only time for 1 DJ! clue, what's the harm? And contestants playing at home, like me, should try to win as much as me, and try hard for a Coryat score of $540, not $538 or less, and my curiosity always burns inside as to what the unread clues are.

Roadgeek Adam wrote: I'm waiting for Season 36 for such a change, and it would be in my preference DJ -> J and DJ being double the current DJ totals. It's too early to change the wages.
Why Season 36? It has to be an anniversary season. I'm hoping for Season 30, or if it has to be so far into the future, Season 35 or even Season 40. And what you mean by DJ -> J and DJ being double the current DJ totals? The current DJ totals for the J! Round, and 800/1600/2400/3200/4000 for DJ!? That makes absolutely no sense. It should be a multiple of 5 the pre-11/26/01 scores, and 400/800/1200/1600/2000 is confusing enough. It should be 250/500/750/1000/1250 for J! or 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 for DJ!, or what I put in for DJ! should be the J! Round, and 1000/2000/3000/4000/5000 for DJ!. Here's hoping for that in September 2013, 2018, or 2023, but not 2019!
Nicky wrote:
RoadgeekAdam wrote: 6. Show more than just white with a blue background for scores. Right now, the only time we see different colors are the red background instead for the negative scores (in the red), and the $1000 and $2000 in blue with a white background for the 2nd and 3rd place totals. How about, like they used to change the contestant backgrounds from blue to red for the DJ! Round, change the scores to blue with a white background for DJ! (and red with a white background when in the red). Like with that screen, we want to see tweaks in scoreboard colors more!
The current process works just fine, why fix what's not broken?
It's just nice to see more than just white with a blue background more often, just like we saw red backgrounds for the podiums rather than blue in the DJ! Round way back when.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Nicky » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:05 pm

alamble wrote: Kids Week airs in July for two reasons: #1. It's a sweeps month;
July is not a sweeps month! The sweeps months are November, Februrary, and May (and March in 2009 only because of the switch to digital that was postponed but the postponing was after March episodes taped, hence the TOC/Celebrity show in March rather than February that year), and that's just when the tournaments air!
alamble wrote: and #2, and more importantly, the kids are out of school and can therefore watch the show.
But it airs in the evening, when kids are out of school! And it's aired during non-sweeps months during the schoolyear before, such as 10/2 - 10/6/00, 9/24 - 9/28/01, 9/16 - 9/20/02, 1/6 - 1/10/03 (I can't imagine any Christmas break going that long), 9/22 - 9/26/03, 10/18 - 10/22/04, 10/10 - 10/14/05 (yes, 10/10 was Columbus Day, but 10/11 - 10/14 weren't holidays), 10/2 - 10/6/06, 10/8 - 10/12/07 (yes, 10/8 was Columbus Day, but 10/9 - 10/12 weren't holidays), and 9/15 - 9/19/08, and what I say all those weeks, not just the July ones.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by alamble » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:11 pm

Nicky wrote:
alamble wrote: Kids Week airs in July for two reasons: #1. It's a sweeps month;
July is not a sweeps month! The sweeps months are November, Februrary, and May (and March in 2009 only because of the switch to digital that was postponed but the postponing was after March episodes taped, hence the TOC/Celebrity show in March rather than February that year), and that's just when the tournaments air!
July is, in fact, a sweeps month - there are four Nielsen evaluation periods, one per quarter. July is the designated period for Q3. Trust me on this, I used to work in broadcasting.

I can only speak for myself, but when I was a kid, by 7:30 I was either at the dinner table or doing my homework, not watching Jeopardy. July is the perfect timing for Kids Week, because the kids have ample opportunity to watch, regardless of what time the show airs in their region.

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Re: Ideal changes for Season 28

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:18 pm

Nicky wrote:
RoadgeekAdam wrote:
Roadgeek Adam wrote: I'm waiting for Season 36 for such a change, and it would be in my preference DJ -> J and DJ being double the current DJ totals. It's too early to change the wages.
Why Season 36? It has to be an anniversary season. I'm hoping for Season 30, or if it has to be so far into the future, Season 35 or even Season 40. And what you mean by DJ -> J and DJ being double the current DJ totals? The current DJ totals for the J! Round, and 800/1600/2400/3200/4000 for DJ!? That makes absolutely no sense. It should be a multiple of 5 the pre-11/26/01 scores, and 400/800/1200/1600/2000 is confusing enough. It should be 250/500/750/1000/1250 for J! or 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 for DJ!, or what I put in for DJ! should be the J! Round, and 1000/2000/3000/4000/5000 for DJ!. Here's hoping for that in September 2013, 2018, or 2023, but not 2019!
You don't know much about the show. 11/26/01 is Season 18. I said Season 36 to use it for exactly 18 years since the last switch.
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