Final Jeopardy! Clues

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talkingaway
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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by talkingaway »

Linear Gnome wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:08 pm
I can't remember if this has come up here before:

LANDMARKS

This 630-foot-tall landmark is arguably the most famous object in the world whose design is based on the hyperbolic cosine.
Spoiler
What is the Gateway Arch?
Spoiler
I got it, but only by taking some intermediate detours - fairly correct ones, apparently. I went from "cosh x" to "catenary" to "velvet rope-shaped curve", since the shape a thick rope makes when hung on two poles is a catenary. I figured after standing on my head that the Gateway Arch fit the bill....and I love a FJ! that involves math!

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by mas3cf »

US PRESIDENTS

The only president to serve less than four full years in each of two separate terms
Spoiler
Who was FDR? (First term was Mar 4, 1933 to Jan 20, 1937 due to passage of the 20th amendment, and died during his fourth term)

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by cheezguyty »

mas3cf wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 am
US PRESIDENTS

The only president to serve less than four full years in each of two separate terms
Spoiler
Who was FDR? (First term was Mar 4, 1933 to Jan 20, 1937 due to passage of the 20th amendment, and died during his fourth term)
Spoiler
My guess was McKinley, thinking that his first term was one day shorter than a usual four-year term due to there being no Leap Day in 1900.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by AFRET CMS »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:04 pm
Linear Gnome wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:08 pm
I can't remember if this has come up here before:

LANDMARKS

This 630-foot-tall landmark is arguably the most famous object in the world whose design is based on the hyperbolic cosine.
Spoiler
What is the Gateway Arch?
I like it! Gettable with a little thought. I took a slight detour to the Sydney Opera House, but it didn't look quite right so I kept driving.
I took a detour and bit on potential negbait with
Spoiler
the hyperbolic legs of the Eiffel Tower, which is unfortunately about 50% too tall for the clue's specification
and then stopped thinking.

The rule is "keep thinking, you may come up with a better answer." Except when the rule is "stay with your original choice and don't change from a correct answer."
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by opusthepenguin »

AFRET CMS wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:01 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:04 pm
Linear Gnome wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:08 pm
I can't remember if this has come up here before:

LANDMARKS

This 630-foot-tall landmark is arguably the most famous object in the world whose design is based on the hyperbolic cosine.
Spoiler
What is the Gateway Arch?
I like it! Gettable with a little thought. I took a slight detour to the Sydney Opera House, but it didn't look quite right so I kept driving.
I took a detour and bit on potential negbait with
Spoiler
the hyperbolic legs of the Eiffel Tower, which is unfortunately about 50% too tall for the clue's specification
Spoiler
Are the leg arches of the Eiffel Tower based on the hyperbolic cosine? If so, or maybe even if a contestant might plausibly think so, that's a potential problem for this clue. I'd say the Eiffel Tower is quite a bit more famous than the Gateway Arch. A clue shouldn't turn on knowing the height of the Eiffel Tower that precisely or knowing the precise shape of its arches. I suppose one could argue that only part of the Eiffel Tower is based on that shape, but I still think it's negbaity. I wonder how the clue could be reworded to avoid that. Changing the category to U.S. Landmarks could do it, I guess.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by triviawayne »

mas3cf wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 am
US PRESIDENTS

The only president to serve less than four full years in each of two separate terms
Spoiler
Who was FDR? (First term was Mar 4, 1933 to Jan 20, 1937 due to passage of the 20th amendment, and died during his fourth term)
Spoiler
weird...but very interesting
Total game show career losings = $171,522

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by talkingaway »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:44 pm
AFRET CMS wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:01 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:04 pm
Linear Gnome wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:08 pm
I can't remember if this has come up here before:

LANDMARKS

This 630-foot-tall landmark is arguably the most famous object in the world whose design is based on the hyperbolic cosine.
Spoiler
What is the Gateway Arch?
I like it! Gettable with a little thought. I took a slight detour to the Sydney Opera House, but it didn't look quite right so I kept driving.
I took a detour and bit on potential negbait with
Spoiler
the hyperbolic legs of the Eiffel Tower, which is unfortunately about 50% too tall for the clue's specification
Spoiler
Are the leg arches of the Eiffel Tower based on the hyperbolic cosine? If so, or maybe even if a contestant might plausibly think so, that's a potential problem for this clue. I'd say the Eiffel Tower is quite a bit more famous than the Gateway Arch. A clue shouldn't turn on knowing the height of the Eiffel Tower that precisely or knowing the precise shape of its arches. I suppose one could argue that only part of the Eiffel Tower is based on that shape, but I still think it's negbaity. I wonder how the clue could be reworded to avoid that. Changing the category to U.S. Landmarks could do it, I guess.
Spoiler

The height of the Gateway Arch pretty much pins the clue. You could add the year, decade, or century if you were really worried about pinning it - or go on the fly, and see if someone else comes up with a monument that's 630 feet within a reasonable tolerance that also has a catenary structure. 600 feet? Okay, we'll accept it. 980-1060 feet, like the Eiffel Tower (depending on what you're counting), or 164 feet like the Arc de Triomphe? Oooh, sorry.

In fact, there actually are a lot of "parabolic" arches, as listed here: https://parabolicarches.wordpress.com/ That actually includes the Arc du Triomphe.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by seaborgium »

cheezguyty wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:30 am
mas3cf wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 am
US PRESIDENTS

The only president to serve less than four full years in each of two separate terms
Spoiler
Who was FDR? (First term was Mar 4, 1933 to Jan 20, 1937 due to passage of the 20th amendment, and died during his fourth term)
Spoiler
My guess was McKinley, thinking that his first term was one day shorter than a usual four-year term due to there being no Leap Day in 1900.
I like that thinking, but I don't think you could legitimately refer to 1900 (or March 4, 1899-March 4, 1900) as less than a full year. Now, if the clue had said "1,461 days" instead of "four full years," you'd have a second correct response.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by Linear Gnome »

More on the "Landmarks" clue:
talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:12 pm
Spoiler
The height of the Gateway Arch pretty much pins the clue. You could add the year, decade, or century if you were really worried about pinning it - or go on the fly, and see if someone else comes up with a monument that's 630 feet within a reasonable tolerance that also has a catenary structure. 600 feet? Okay, we'll accept it. 980-1060 feet, like the Eiffel Tower (depending on what you're counting), or 164 feet like the Arc de Triomphe? Oooh, sorry.

In fact, there actually are a lot of "parabolic" arches, as listed here: https://parabolicarches.wordpress.com/ That actually includes the Arc du Triomphe.
Spoiler
Could one argue that the exponential function is "based on" the hyperbolic cosine because exp(x)=cosh(x)+sinh(x) and sinh(x) can be derived from cosh(x) (though not uniquely)? My opinion is that it's a stretch. If an alternative answer depended on interpreting the hyperbolic cosine as "based on" the exponential, it would be easier to convince me that it might be negbait.

My opinion is that "U.S. Landmarks" makes it too easy. How about inserting "designed by Eero Saarinen"?

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by talkingaway »

Linear Gnome wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:05 pm
More on the "Landmarks" clue:
talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:12 pm
Spoiler
The height of the Gateway Arch pretty much pins the clue. You could add the year, decade, or century if you were really worried about pinning it - or go on the fly, and see if someone else comes up with a monument that's 630 feet within a reasonable tolerance that also has a catenary structure. 600 feet? Okay, we'll accept it. 980-1060 feet, like the Eiffel Tower (depending on what you're counting), or 164 feet like the Arc de Triomphe? Oooh, sorry.

In fact, there actually are a lot of "parabolic" arches, as listed here: https://parabolicarches.wordpress.com/ That actually includes the Arc du Triomphe.
Spoiler
Could one argue that the exponential function is "based on" the hyperbolic cosine because exp(x)=cosh(x)+sinh(x) and sinh(x) can be derived from cosh(x) (though not uniquely)? My opinion is that it's a stretch. If an alternative answer depended on interpreting the hyperbolic cosine as "based on" the exponential, it would be easier to convince me that it might be negbait.

My opinion is that "U.S. Landmarks" makes it too easy. How about inserting "designed by Eero Saarinen"?
Spoiler
The "parabolic" arches actually seemed to be a misnomer from what the article was saying, because it referred to catenaries at some point. But then it went back to some weird parametric equations.

I'd agree that exponential function being "based on" cosh is a bit of a stretch. I mean, technically, you can transform any shape into any other shape. The Gateway Arch is cosh-esque, and from reading, that's the most accurate representation....although if you were to tell me it was a parabola, I'd have a hard time refuting it.

But I also wonder if there aren't other catenaries out there, since it's the shape of a rope on two poles pulled down by gravity. It's a fairly common structure. However, the height basically pins the Gateway Arch, and it WAS the first monument I happened to think of.

I might go for "630-foot upside-down catenary" as the TOM...but cosh is reasonable, too.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by AFRET CMS »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:44 pm
AFRET CMS wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:01 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:04 pm
Linear Gnome wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:08 pm
I can't remember if this has come up here before:

LANDMARKS

This 630-foot-tall landmark is arguably the most famous object in the world whose design is based on the hyperbolic cosine.
Spoiler
What is the Gateway Arch?
I like it! Gettable with a little thought. I took a slight detour to the Sydney Opera House, but it didn't look quite right so I kept driving.
I took a detour and bit on potential negbait with
Spoiler
the hyperbolic legs of the Eiffel Tower, which is unfortunately about 50% too tall for the clue's specification
Spoiler
Are the leg arches of the Eiffel Tower based on the hyperbolic cosine? If so, or maybe even if a contestant might plausibly think so, that's a potential problem for this clue. I'd say the Eiffel Tower is quite a bit more famous than the Gateway Arch. A clue shouldn't turn on knowing the height of the Eiffel Tower that precisely or knowing the precise shape of its arches. I suppose one could argue that only part of the Eiffel Tower is based on that shape, but I still think it's negbaity. I wonder how the clue could be reworded to avoid that. Changing the category to U.S. Landmarks could do it, I guess.
Nasty, forcing someone to do research on a weekend. Turns out
Spoiler
Eiffel designed the tower by rule-of-thumb, not mathematically. The legs only approximate any particular curve.

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2005/01/ ... ulder-prof

https://www.ce.jhu.edu/perspectives/stu ... ometry.htm

Though specifying "U.S. Landmark" would have eliminated the Eiffel Tower, I just realized there could still be negbait with something like the Golden Gate bridge, with the catenary cables between towers whose height could be close to that specified.
I very much like the general concept of the clue, but I wonder if it may be asking a lot for the average contestant to parse out parabolas vs hyperbolas vs hyperbolic cosines in 30 seconds.
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by mas3cf »

UNIVERSITY TOWNS

Historically, the ability to cross the river with beasts of burden there gave this town strategic military importance.
Spoiler
What is Oxford?

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by mas3cf »

ASIAN CITIES

This city, whose name means "ruler of the East", received a major economic boost in 1916 upon the completion of a construction project.
Spoiler
What is Vladivostok?

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by nserven »

PLAYS

In most productions of this 1962 play, the title line is sung to “Here We Go ‘Round the Mulberry Bush” to avoid licensing fees.
Spoiler
What is Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

(because “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf” is owned by Disney, while “Mulberry” is public domain)

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by opusthepenguin »

nserven wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:41 am
PLAYS

In most productions of this 1962 play, the title line is sung to “Here We Go ‘Round the Mulberry Bush” to avoid licensing fees.
Spoiler
What is Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

(because “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf” is owned by Disney, while “Mulberry” is public domain)
Did not know that! Good clue. Figured it out here in the peace of my own home. I have a feeling that under the lights this would make me panic and blank.

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by mas3cf »

MOVIES

As a prop, a mechanically controlled dummy capable of rotating its head 360 degrees was made in the likeness of this actress.
Spoiler
Who is Linda Blair?

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by talkingaway »

1960S COUNTERCULTURE

This two-word cultural phenomenon of the 1960s describes both King George III's actions and the style of his solos in the musical Hamilton.
Spoiler
What is British Invasion?

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by BrigadierSolo13 »

ENGLISH KINGS

They are the only 3 Kings of England to have Golden Jubilees. They all share the same regnal number.
Spoiler
Who are Henry III, Edward III, and George III? (They reigned 52 years, 50 years, and 59 years respectively)

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by mas3cf »

WORLD POSTAGE

In 1967 and again in 2017, this Brit appeared on an Israeli postage stamp.
Spoiler
Who is Lord Balfour?

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Re: Final Jeopardy! Clues

Post by opusthepenguin »

mas3cf wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:29 am
WORLD POSTAGE

In 1967 and again in 2017, this Brit appeared on an Israeli postage stamp.
Spoiler
Who is Lord Balfour?
Good one. This is your classic "If it's not X, I don't even know where to start guessing." I wouldn't want this type to dominate FJ, but I like them sprinkled in with the others. It's the kind that should be a triple get but there's always at least one contestant whose brain just didn't take them in the right direction.

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