Two thoughts....

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RKane
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Two thoughts....

Post by RKane »

It occured to me to wonder that, if you were a Jeopardy! champion, how would you rather lose? Being ahead going into FJ and getting it wrong (with the opponent getting it right), or being behind going into FJ and getting it right (with the opponent also getting it right).

Personally I would say the second option, i.e., Larrisa Kelly style. That way you don't have "H&R Block" or "New Orleans" haunting you the rest of your life and I think it's a cooler way to leave. Although of course you might have a bad DD or something haunting you instead.

~

Another interestng thought I had was who do you think the smartest Jeopardy contestant is? Because it is quite clear that being good at Jeopardy certainly is not equivalent to having a high IQ or being intelligent (Arthur Chu has noted this himself). I'd go with Roger Craig, personally, just based on watching talks hes given and the way he presents himself. Keith also seems very intelligent, although for all I know it's just at doing game theory.
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gnash
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by gnash »

RKane wrote:Another interestng thought I had was who do you think the smartest Jeopardy contestant is?
Somebody who wouldn't ask that question.
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by countyguy »

RKane wrote: Another interestng thought I had was who do you think the smartest Jeopardy contestant is? Because it is quite clear that being good at Jeopardy certainly is not equivalent to having a high IQ or being intelligent (Arthur Chu has noted this himself). I'd go with Roger Craig, personally, just based on watching talks hes given and the way he presents himself. Keith also seems very intelligent, although for all I know it's just at doing game theory.
Given the fact that being intelligent and being good at J! are different, the smartest contestant ever, IQ-wise, may well be a 0-time champion (and some really good players lose their first game; Julia would have except for very weak opponents). Many champions with long streaks trailed going into FJ!, some multiple times in victories. Also, many elites are 6-game champions or so, if you are going to have 6 wins and 1 loss in seven games, the loss could come at the beginning or the end. Florida lost its second game and had a great season, while Syracuse started off with a long winning streak before tapering off. The way we see it in basketball, Florida did better than Syracuse. In Jeopardy, Florida would lose game 2 while Syracuse would go on a big run, because only the way you start matters. Also, the Chiefs would be the top NFL team this year due to its 9-0 start. It is hard to tell which elite champion is the smartest, let alone sifting through the thousands of players who weren't so successful.
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by seaborgium »

RKane wrote:It occured to me to wonder that, if you were a Jeopardy! champion, how would you rather lose? Being ahead going into FJ and getting it wrong (with the opponent getting it right), or being behind going into FJ and getting it right (with the opponent also getting it right).

Personally I would say the second option, i.e., Larrisa Kelly style.
Someone didn't watch her ToC.

As someone who has lost from the lead twice (for a total missed payout of $281,601), I think I prefer that way, because I can say that just a different frame of mind (or whatever slight change brings about a correct FJ response on the gettable clues I missed) would have won it for me.

However, I would also relish (in some sick way) getting solidly beaten, and still hope to be afforded that opportunity.
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by hscer »

Worst way, at least in regular play: lead into FJ, get it right, and lose anyway because you didn't bet to cover. (Sorry, Bob.)
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kickerofelves
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by kickerofelves »

RKane wrote:Personally I would say the second option, i.e., Larrisa Kelly style. That way you don't have "H&R Block" or "New Orleans" haunting you the rest of your life and I think it's a cooler way to leave. Although of course you might have a bad DD or something haunting you instead.
Meh. That's how I went down, and yeah, my bad DD miss and subsequent bad hail mary attempt are what bug me, to the extent that anything bugs me. ;)

Damn you, Francis Scott Key! Damn you, Treaty of Ghent! :lol:
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gnash
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by gnash »

The worst way to lose is what happened to Brian Weikle, one of the all-time J! greats, and a regular contributor to this board, in his ToC final.

I apologize to Brian for bringing up these painful memories, but it is something every new contestant needs to be aware of. I also use this opportunity to remind everyone else how good a player Brian is; I would give him equal chances against Ken and Brad.
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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Interesting how we always play the "what if" game, post mortem.

This hit home with me about 20 years ago, when I was fortunate enough to have a fairly intimate meet-and-greet with hockey legend Gordie Howe. One of the other folks asked him about his most memorable goal. Strangely enough, he rattled off a bunch of times that he missed goals -- those were the ones he remembered most.

Mind you, this was the all-time leading scorer (both NHL [1850 points] and professional [2358 points, if you include his WHA stats]) until Wayne Gretzky came along, won a few Stanley Cups (and a couple of Avco Cups in the WHA), and yet the misses were what he remembered.

(BTW -- personally, I think the worst way to lose on J! would be to instaget self-Durst on FJ.)
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by jfrumkin »

RKane wrote:It occured to me to wonder that, if you were a Jeopardy! champion, how would you rather lose? Being ahead going into FJ and getting it wrong (with the opponent getting it right), or being behind going into FJ and getting it right (with the opponent also getting it right).

Personally I would say the second option, i.e., Larrisa Kelly style. That way you don't have "H&R Block" or "New Orleans" haunting you the rest of your life and I think it's a cooler way to leave. Although of course you might have a bad DD or something haunting you instead.
I went down the first way and I prefer that. The missed final bugs me, though it was a difficult one, but it's a good feat to be able to say that I led after SJ and DJ in all three of my episodes.
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georgespelvin
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by georgespelvin »

seaborgium wrote: However, I would also relish (in some sick way) getting solidly beaten, and still hope to be afforded that opportunity.
Well, one night at O'Brien's talk to Brad and Jerome, get someone else to play Alex Trebek, play a random game from the archives from long ago, and voila! :lol:
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georgespelvin
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by georgespelvin »

gnash wrote:The worst way to lose is what happened to Brian Weikle, one of the all-time J! greats, and a regular contributor to this board, in his ToC final.

I apologize to Brian for bringing up these painful memories, but it is something every new contestant needs to be aware of. I also use this opportunity to remind everyone else how good a player Brian is; I would give him equal chances against Ken and Brad.
Oh God yes! In fact, this cost him more than the ToC, it turned out costing him a spot in the Battle of the Decades.
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Newhausen
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by Newhausen »

The worst way to lose is by missing a Final you have no excuse to miss, either by freezing up or some sort of phrasing error, misspelling, or misunderstanding of the question.

Honestly, if my opponent got Final right, I don't think it would much matter to me which of the OP's two scenarios it was - If I was behind going in and we both got it right, then I lost to a better player and there's no shame in that. If I was ahead going in and just missed on Final, then it's entirely my fault and there's no one else to blame. I can live with either outcome.
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georgespelvin
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by georgespelvin »

I would imagine that there is nothing more painful to have played a great game, finished DJ in five figures, be in second (or third) place and then seeing a FJ that is so easy that it's Kid's Week material.

Unless, of course, you have played a great game, finished DJ in five figures, have a small or modest lead and then seeing a FJ that seems impossible and a likely TS (although you can hope there that your opponents don't know basic wagering strategy).*

* Obviously Bob Shore would have a counter to this.
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Rex Kramer
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by Rex Kramer »

georgespelvin wrote:I would imagine that there is nothing more painful to have played a great game, finished DJ in five figures, be in second (or third) place and then seeing a FJ that is so easy that it's Kid's Week material.
You would imagine correctly.

Rex
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Budphrey
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by Budphrey »

There is immediate pain, then there is the lingering question of what-ifs.

I won my third game in a way that might well have been a huge trauma for an opponent who, by all rights, should have beat me. She was in first place following DJ! but lamentably underwagered on what turned out to be a triple get.

The very next game, I lost in a way that nine years later still has me occasionally catching my breath. Because I had seen people wager "everything but a dollar" so many times and had never really thought about the implications, that's what I did from third place. Player 1, who had less than twice my total, missed FJ!. Player 2 and I both got it, but he had unexpectedly wagered to offer a tie. So that $1 I held back made a difference of at least $18K+ and a Tournament of Champions appearance. (Fortunately a hidden blessing revealed itself over time, which I have explained in the past but won't burden y'all with now, and for years the Dear Wife and I have been at lotus-position, tree-hugging peace with the whole situation. But that fidgety ol' left brain just starts chattering sometimes.)

Of the two scenarios the OP proposed ... assuming the first-place player wagered to win outright rather than to tie, I think I would be more comfortable with losing on a double get from second place, because it would be less of an emotional reversal that falling from the catbird seat.
Poo-tee-weet? So it goes.
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by teapot37 »

I have lost:
* being about $1000 from a lock and then missing FJ
* getting slaughtered on a board full of things I didn't know
* losing a coin flip on FJ where I was in the lead
* getting shut down by Brad Rutter in his prime

BY FAR the worst of these is #3. I still wonder what would have happened had I played multiple choice on that one.
Not many people can say they've lost four times on Jeopardy!.
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by RKane »

seaborgium wrote:
RKane wrote:It occured to me to wonder that, if you were a Jeopardy! champion, how would you rather lose? Being ahead going into FJ and getting it wrong (with the opponent getting it right), or being behind going into FJ and getting it right (with the opponent also getting it right).

Personally I would say the second option, i.e., Larrisa Kelly style.
Someone didn't watch her ToC.
I meant in her last regular game.
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by opusthepenguin »

For me, the worst way to lose would be via an indefensible wager. I'd have to turn in my Viking helmet. I'd be denied admittance to Wagering Valhalla. Instead, I'd spend the afterlife in Fíflheim in endless torment. I picture myself surrounded by all the champs who made bad wagers and got away with it. I spend all my time trying to explain to them why their bet was sub-optimal. The conversation always ends the same way, "Well, I won didn't I?" :evil:
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by Turd Ferguson »

georgespelvin wrote:I would imagine that there is nothing more painful to have played a great game, finished DJ in five figures, be in second (or third) place and then seeing a FJ that is so easy that it's Kid's Week material.
I didn't play a great game in my second game, but was at > 2/3 of the leader's score pre-FJ! so had a chance. The second I saw the Final clue I knew I was done, and it didn't help that I could hear the leader starting to write down his answer right away. IIRC, the FJ! scored at > 95% on the weekly poll.

What made it even worse was that I had < 3/4 of the leaders score, so my "smart" bet left me still trailing after getting it right, so I got a "snarky" comment from Alex about my wager, and then had to explain it to people who asked why I didn't "bet to win" (and I'm sure others wondered but didn't ask).
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Re: Two thoughts....

Post by opusthepenguin »

Turd Ferguson wrote:What made it even worse was that I had < 3/4 of the leaders score, so my "smart" bet left me still trailing after getting it right, so I got a "snarky" comment from Alex about my wager, and then had to explain it to people who asked why I didn't "bet to win" (and I'm sure others wondered but didn't ask).
Turd $8,800 + $2,700 = $11,500
Bob $11,800 + $5,900 = $17,700
Megan $1,000 + $990 = $1,990

Yeah, I can see how that led to irksome questions. Especially since, before Bob's response was revealed, your display would have read $11,500 and his still read $11,800. There was a time when I would've scratched my head at that and thought, geez buddy, if you're going to get that close, why not toss in the extra $301? Explaining the answer, especially without a chalkboard or pen and paper, will just make people's eyes glaze over.

What was Alex's comment?
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