SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

Post Reply
User avatar
Rex Kramer
Jeopardy! TOCer
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:08 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Rex Kramer »

Paucle wrote:
cinemaniax7 wrote:
hbomb1947 wrote:You will undoubtedly be eligible for the inevitable RQ.
Only if there's a city named for Nisan, I imagine.
Not at all.
If Passover takes place during Nisan, and only during Nisan, then certainly anyone who knows that but knows nothing about whether or not a city is named for Nisan shouldn't be penalized.
I knew from crosswords that Nisan was Passover month, but I also knew from Crosswords that Aviv was a month in their calender. Growing up Christian, I recognized Easter as being a holiday that could fall during one of two months; hoping Passover had the same possibility, I went with the month that I knew fit the city part of the question.
If Passover can occur during either Aviv or Nisan, then this question would go down in SHC history as the neggiest of baits ever!
Aviv and Nisan are the same month. Nisan is the newer name for it. Giving someone credit for answering "Nisan" would be like allowing "Kringle" as an answer to "This name for a Christmas visitor is a homophone for 'talons'".

Rex
User avatar
hbomb1947
Still hoping to get on Jeopardy! while my age is in double digits
Posts: 2434
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:31 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by hbomb1947 »

Rex Kramer wrote:
Aviv and Nisan are the same month. Nisan is the newer name for it. Giving someone credit for answering "Nisan" would be like allowing "Kringle" as an answer to "This name for a Christmas visitor is a homophone for 'talons'".

Rex
Uh, no. The two are not synonymous. "Aviv" is not currently used as a month in the Hebrew calendar, and basically hasn't been for thousands of years (according to wikipedia, "Since the Babylonian captivity, this month has mainly been called Nisan."). See how many current Jewish calendars you can find that refer to the month as Aviv. The question did not ask for the former name of the month in which Passover takes place.
Follow me on twitter, even though I rarely tweet! https://twitter.com/hbomb_worldwide
User avatar
Rex Kramer
Jeopardy! TOCer
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:08 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Rex Kramer »

hbomb1947 wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Aviv and Nisan are the same month. Nisan is the newer name for it. Giving someone credit for answering "Nisan" would be like allowing "Kringle" as an answer to "This name for a Christmas visitor is a homophone for 'talons'".

Rex
Uh, no. The two are not synonymous. "Aviv" is not currently used as a month in the Hebrew calendar, and basically hasn't been for thousands of years (according to wikipedia, "Since the Babylonian captivity, this month has mainly been called Nisan."). See how many current Jewish calendars you can find that refer to the month as Aviv. The question did not ask for the former name of the month in which Passover takes place.
That may be so -- what do I know from Jewish calendars? -- but it doesn't invalidate any of what I wrote. They are the same month. Nisan is the newer name. Giving credit for "Nisan" when it blatantly does not fit the "city" part of the clue would be like giving credit for "Kringle" when it blatantly does not sound like "claws".

The fact that there is an attractive wrong answer is not sufficient to allow credit for that wrong answer, or even (by itself) to require a RQ.

Rex

P.S. -- Even your Wikipedia quotation only says "this month has mainly been called Nisan". Unless there is a third possibility, this implies that at least some of the time, it is still called Aviv.
User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by gnash »

The Aviv question was technically correct, and in all probability* had a unique answer, but it was terribly misleading.

I didn't guess - I knew that Passover is in Nisan. (And I knew it for the same reason Ivan knew it - it features prominently in Master and Margarita.) I wasn't wrong about that - Passover is indeed in Nisan.

Now if we were supposed to know that Nisan was called Aviv before the Babylonian captivity, that's super-hard even for the ToC.

Or were we supposed to guess from Tel Aviv? How in the world? First, how in the world would we know which city? Then, I know the names of all Hebrew months (although I don't know them all in order), and none of them is Aviv. (Yeah, I don't know the names that have been former names for 2.5 millennia...) I even considered a possible connection between Av and Tel Aviv, which I rejected knowing that Passover does not fall in Av. (Note to scorer, if it comes up: Av is not the same as Aviv.)

Even if I had known that "Tel Aviv" means "spring hill", I wouldn't have gotten Aviv - it might have pushed me to guess Av, second-guessing my knowledge of religious holidays.

* I say "in all probability" because (1) I haven't found the meaning of "Nisan" so I don't know that it doesn't mean "spring" and (2) I don't know that no city is named for Nisan. So there is some small chance that "Nisan" may also be correct.
User avatar
hbomb1947
Still hoping to get on Jeopardy! while my age is in double digits
Posts: 2434
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:31 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by hbomb1947 »

gnash wrote:The Aviv question was technically correct, and in all probability* had a unique answer, but it was terribly misleading.
I would not concede that it is technically correct. The clue begins, "This month in which Passover is celebrated . . ."

Not, "The former name of this month in which Passover is celebrated," and not "This month in which Passover was celebrated in ancient times."
Follow me on twitter, even though I rarely tweet! https://twitter.com/hbomb_worldwide
User avatar
TomKBaltimoreBoy
Lucky to be Here
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:30 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by TomKBaltimoreBoy »

The only reason I put down Aviv is that as a city so recently created, it was the best possible guess for such a name -- and I was hoping that it wasn't "Tel". Apparently, there is quite a hole in my reading; gotta go pick up a copy of Bulgakov.
Life IS pain, Princess. Anyone telling you differently is selling something.
Suze
Jeopardy! Contestant
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:50 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Suze »

Bamaman wrote:How did his injury change the date of your show's airing? Did the taping schedule get changed, thus forcing someone to drop out and getting you bumped to a differant spot in the lineup?
They cancelled a few weeks of taping because of his injury, so when they started up again on Aug 23, that was only the second day (or 2nd 'week' of episodes) of taping. So instead of me airing mid-October, they moved those episodes up to late September to fill in the gap.
User avatar
Rex Kramer
Jeopardy! TOCer
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:08 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Rex Kramer »

http://www.nazareneisrael.org/Study/The ... eYear.aspx :

The Hillel II Calendar reinforces the practice our Jewish brothers picked up in Babylon, of calling the months by names (rather than by ordinal numbers). For example, the Hillel II Calendar calls the first month of the year “Nisan.” However, in modern Hebrew, the first month of the year is also called “The Month of Aviv,” as if Aviv was a name that meant simply, “spring” (which is what the term translates to in Modern Hebrew).

http://www.oceansidejc.org/roshhash/MishRoshH_01.html :

"The months, according to the Torah, begin in Nisan, referred to as the month of "Aviv" (Spring)."

http://www.jewishtreats.org/2011/02/leap-year.html

“Observe the month of Aviv (Spring), and keep the Passover for the Lord your God; for in the month of Aviv, the Lord your God brought you out of Egypt by night” (Deuteronomy 16:1).

* * *

Note that a search for "the month of Nisan" & "Passover" on Google yields 159,000 hits, while "the month of Aviv" & "Passover" yields 21,000. Yes, Nisan is clearly the "mainly" used term, but it would be difficult to argue that Aviv is no longer in use or is merely a "former name".
User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by gnash »

Rex Kramer wrote:http://www.nazareneisrael.org/Study/The ... eYear.aspx :

The Hillel II Calendar reinforces the practice our Jewish brothers picked up in Babylon, of calling the months by names (rather than by ordinal numbers). For example, the Hillel II Calendar calls the first month of the year “Nisan.” However, in modern Hebrew, the first month of the year is also called “The Month of Aviv,” as if Aviv was a name that meant simply, “spring” (which is what the term translates to in Modern Hebrew).

http://www.oceansidejc.org/roshhash/MishRoshH_01.html :

"The months, according to the Torah, begin in Nisan, referred to as the month of "Aviv" (Spring)."

http://www.jewishtreats.org/2011/02/leap-year.html

“Observe the month of Aviv (Spring), and keep the Passover for the Lord your God; for in the month of Aviv, the Lord your God brought you out of Egypt by night” (Deuteronomy 16:1).

* * *

Note that a search for "the month of Nisan" & "Passover" on Google yields 159,000 hits, while "the month of Aviv" & "Passover" yields 21,000. Yes, Nisan is clearly the "mainly" used term, but it would be difficult to argue that Aviv is no longer in use or is merely a "former name".
Two of your three quotes refer to the Torah. The Wikipedia article agrees with it - "Aviv" is used in the Torah. But the Torah was written down in its final form during the Babylonian captivity, and from traditional sources some of which are much older. So yes, that makes it a former name. Expecting an American to know the name of the month used in the Torah is like expecting an Israeli to know the vocabulary of Chaucer. (Actually, it's about 3 times more, time-wise.)

That leaves one quote, whose credibility I am in no position to assess.
User avatar
Woof
Swimming in the Jeopardy! Pool
Posts: 5125
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Woof »

cinemaniax7 wrote:Back in the alternate reality that is SHC, I just want to say thanks for the Doctor Who category today. My daughter and I have only recently discovered the good Doctor, and we have now worked our way through the past six seasons. I could never get into the show as a child, given the mediocre writing, interminable pacing, and under-funded FX. But the David Tennant and Matt Smith years have been a joy to watch.
I OTOH still love the older episodes (which for the most part are all that I've watched) for the same reason that Peggles and Randy G love (as I do) '50s era SciFi films: their campy cheesiness. To me, Tom Baker will always be the Doctor, no matter how many actors follow him. Then again, I also consider Sean Connery to be the one true James Bond, so take my opinions for what they're worth.
Suze
Jeopardy! Contestant
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:50 am

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Suze »

Wow, I thought it definitely couldn't be Degas for the last question, because I didn't examine the clue close enough. I eliminated him because he'd sold plenty of paintings while alive...but none of those to museums, apparently.

Good categories today. :)
User avatar
Woof
Swimming in the Jeopardy! Pool
Posts: 5125
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Woof »

Suze wrote:Wow, I thought it definitely couldn't be Degas for the last question, because I didn't examine the clue close enough. I eliminated him because he'd sold plenty of paintings while alive...but none of those to museums, apparently.
I almost fell for the same trap, Sue/Suze/Susie/Susan :mrgreen: My initial thinking was "only one sale? Van Gogh wasn't French and isn't five letters! To a museum.... oh! Who's another 5-letter French impressionist? OK, Degas it is." I think that I managed a perfecto today courtesy of that WAG.
Peggles
Grand Exalted Queen of the Universe
Posts: 851
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:39 am
Location: Swansea, Massachusetts

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Peggles »

Woof wrote:
I OTOH still love the older episodes (which for the most part are all that I've watched) for the same reason that Peggles and Randy G love (as I do) '50s era SciFi films: their campy cheesiness. To me, Tom Baker will always be the Doctor, no matter how many actors follow him. Then again, I also consider Sean Connery to be the one true James Bond, so take my opinions for what they're worth.
Did someone else play Bond?
User avatar
Volante
Harbinger of the Doomed Lemur
Posts: 9254
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:42 pm

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Volante »

Peggles wrote:
Woof wrote:
I OTOH still love the older episodes (which for the most part are all that I've watched) for the same reason that Peggles and Randy G love (as I do) '50s era SciFi films: their campy cheesiness. To me, Tom Baker will always be the Doctor, no matter how many actors follow him. Then again, I also consider Sean Connery to be the one true James Bond, so take my opinions for what they're worth.
Did someone else play Bond?
Never any love for Dalton... :(
The best thing that Neil Armstrong ever did, was to let us all imagine we were him.
Latest movies (1-10): Everything Everywhere All at Once (10), Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken (6), Black Sunday /1960/ (6), Marcel the Shell with Shoes On (7)
User avatar
Paucle
Trekardy! Writer
Posts: 3233
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: near Albany NY

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by Paucle »

Volante wrote:
Peggles wrote: Never any love for Dalton... :(
kidding? He's actually my fave. Doesn't hurt both his films were great stories, too. Really liked Licence to Kill.
User avatar
--Pete
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:55 pm
Location: Kent, Washington, USA

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by --Pete »

Hi,
Peggles wrote: Did someone else play Bond?
Many people played Bond. Only Connery is Bond.

--Pete
"We are looking over our new domicile,
If we like, we stay for maybe quite a while."
User avatar
dhkendall
Pursuing the Dream
Posts: 8789
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Contact:

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by dhkendall »

Once I saw "5 letter painters" as a category, I figured the first two had to be Manet and Monet. Took a guess at which was which (was familiar with the 3 point painting, but I always get the names mixed up, and I'm sure I"m not the only one here. Any tips to keep em straight?) and called it a day. Looking at the answers before mine (thankfully, Schliemann's) it looks like my WAG paid off, but I want to state, unequivocally, here and now, that it was nothing but a WAG.
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings

Follow my progress game by game since 2012
mathdanmom
Valued Contributor
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:48 pm

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by mathdanmom »

So frustrated by those darn French painters. Monet, Manet, Degas (and Renoir and others) are all the same to me, so I tried to decide a reasonable combination to guess them in. Degas seems harder, so maybe the 15-pointer? But Degas' name was the first that came to mind for that "luncheon" painting, so I went with that, and didn't bother guessing M_net. Lucky I came up with Wyeth, never heard of German dude (couldn't name any German painter, frankly, much less a 5-letter name.) Movies were a better category for me, but I was almost tricked by the 4-pointer. Saw the number 5, thought of 5 easy pieces, decided those were piano pieces so it didn't fit, tried hard to think of another movie with 5 in the title, gave up and read the later clues. Bingo, piano is mentioned so I've got that one. Finally it occurs to me that even though the clue mentions 5 casinos, the title number could be something else. Never saw Oceans 11 but it seemed a likely guess, I knew it was a remake.

yesterday's Doctor Who category was mega-wheelhouse, though.
AcadamiaNut
Valued Contributor
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:28 pm

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by AcadamiaNut »

"10. Occupation most likely to produce a bing or a himbasha, and given the category, an unsurprising second use of this correct response."

Anyone else get confused by the wording? I thought the "use" was referring to a second usage or purpose for whatever the correct answer to question 10 was, not the re-use of an answer from a previous question. Didn't help that I'm not familiar with Dr. Who, but the wording here was difficult to parse (at least for me).
User avatar
barandall800
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:44 pm
Location: Brunswick, OH
Contact:

Re: SHC Round 5 Instant Replay Thread {SPOILERS}

Post by barandall800 »

--Pete wrote:Hi,
Peggles wrote: Did someone else play Bond?
Many people played Bond. Only Connery is Bond.

--Pete
I'd make a strong case for Brosnan and Craig, too. (Perhaps I shouldn't talk, though, since as I mentioned when mitchparov ran the James Bond-themed TD on the old board, my viewing of the pre-Brosnan films is virtually nonexistent. I'm not knocking Connery, though, by any means, and he's definitely almost entirely responsible for the Bond films becoming popular in the first place.)

Also, my feelings about me not pulling the trigger on Degas for the 15-pointer (I just had a feeling, and even though I thought "it isn't ballet!" I knew he had to have painted much more than ballet-themed works)? De-gahhhhhhh... :x
Post Reply