Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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debramc
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by debramc »

nlw44 wrote:
debramc wrote:Antenna(e) for tentacle? Alex didn't actually say it had to start with "ten" when he introduced the category (though the other four responses did start with "ten"). I hate the quotation categories because it's not always clear what the parameters are...
ETA: Well, not really hate... they are usually pretty good categories, it just makes me nervous when it's not clear.
Regarding purses, I can't see most men getting much in the category, but I can't be the only woman who only got a couple either. Believe me, overpriced and overhyped name-brand purses are not on every woman's top ten list of things to remember for Jeopardy.
I think I actually knew someone who had a Dooney & Bourke knockoff, or maybe just lusted after a real one, so I got that one, as well as LV. I should have known Marc Jacobs (especially when spotted "Marc J") because it was in another fancy purse category very recently. Otherwise, fashion is one of my lowest priorities in life. And the last time I even worked somewhere that required dresses or other fanciness was more than 11 years ago.
As for "antenna" as an answer for that other clue, I got the impression that they actually wanted antenna but accepted tentacle. There was a bit of a hesitation or surprise in Alex's voice when he accepted it. I don't have the exact wording of the clue, but based on what I remember, I don't have any doubt that antenna would have been perfectly acceptable.
I thought he was preparing to say "We were expecting antenna, but tentacle is perfectly good too." But he didn't so that's what made me nervous.
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Rex Kramer
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by Rex Kramer »

Mark B wrote:"In 1965 this African American with an alliterative name won the singles & doubles college tennis titles"

My initial reaction to this clue was that "Arthur Ashe" isn't alliterative but assonant. Grammarians?
I agree. And circle gets the square!

Rex
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alietr
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by alietr »

Mark B wrote:My initial reaction to this clue was that "Arthur Ashe" isn't alliterative but assonant.
Hey! Let's watch ourselves; this is a family board!
seaborgium
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by seaborgium »

Mark B wrote:"In 1965 this African American with an alliterative name won the singles & doubles college tennis titles"

My initial reaction to this clue was that "Arthur Ashe" isn't alliterative but assonant. Grammarians?
I wouldn't call it assonant; the two words have no vowel sound in common. ("Alan Ashe" would be assonant.) As for alliterative, well, to me words starting with any vowel sounds are alliterative, the unwritten glottal at the beginning being the sound they have in common ("extra innings," for example). But the second glottal can often be elided away (which is why I tried for a phrase whose first word also ends in a vowel), and that happens in my usual pronunciation of "Arthur Ashe." So neither assonant nor strictly alliterative. But at least "alliterative" has some implication of written word, and so I'm okay with Jeopardy using it to refer to pairs of words with repeated (and non-silent!) initials.
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jpahk
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by jpahk »

i agree. it's a loose-but-not-wrong use of "alliterative".
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alietr
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by alietr »

Plus there must be about 20 crossword clues to elicit a response of 'Ashe' instead of their clue. Some of which involve my dear, departed Shea.
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opusthepenguin
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by opusthepenguin »

Mark B wrote:"In 1965 this African American with an alliterative name won the singles & doubles college tennis titles"

My initial reaction to this clue was that "Arthur Ashe" isn't alliterative but assonant. Grammarians?
What's a grammarian going to tell you? There aren't any grammatical errors in the clue. :)

My answer as an English major and language geek is that it isn't assonant, but it's more or less alliterative.

I wouldn't call "Arthur Ashe" assonant because the vowel sounds are not similar enough. If his name were "Arthur Ox", that would be an assonance (even more so if you weren't a rhotic sort).

As for alliteration, it depends how tightly you want to define the term. Jeopardy!'s definition is somewhat loose, but not as loose as it could be. A tighter definition would require that the initial sounds be either assonant or consonant--involving a correspondence of same or similar vowel or consonant sounds. By that definition, I wouldn't consider "Arthur Ashe" alliterative. And I think "status symbol"--which J! called "alliterative" last season on Feb 23--is pushing it a little.

On the other hand, in Old English alliterative verse, the rule was that all vowels alliterate together. So not only is "Arthur Ashe" alliterative, so is "Arthur Ox" and "evil undertaker's aide". While this definition still has its current uses, Jeopardy! wisely avoids pushing the issue. Their rule on vowels seems to be that the initial letters have to be the same and have to to make some sort of vowel sound. Hence, "electric eel" was described as "alliterative" on 7-20-2010, as was "Amy Adams" on 3-19-2010.

So Jeopardy!'s rule on vowels is they don't have to sound the same, they just have to be the same. Their rule on consonants is exactly the reverse. Hence, "jungle-gym" was described as alliterative on 7-8-2011 despite j being a different letter from g. But "Ptolemy's peculiar philosophical psyche" would not be, despite the initial p's.

This may seem inconsistent, but I don't think it is. In essence, they're using the looser, Old English, definition but selectively avoiding those examples that involve different initial vowel letters. This corresponds to the popular understanding of "alliteration" and avoids controversy. Mostly.

EDIT: I didn't properly close the italics around the word "be" when I composed the above some 2 years, 7 months ago. That's taken care of now. Mostly I just wanted to prove to myself that it actually was possible to edit something so far in the past. (Will this now show up as an unread post?) If this works, I'll go through all my old posts to edit out typos, clarify ambiguities, and improve my predictions. :mrgreen:
Last edited by opusthepenguin on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DBear
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by DBear »

Congratulations, writers. You came up with a category that I care even less about than Hollywood. :evil:
Seriously, purses?
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Mark B
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by Mark B »

Thanks for the thoughtful responses on assonance, and particularly opus, for making me look up "rhotic." :-)
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Paucle
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by Paucle »

seaborgium wrote:
Paucle wrote:
SkoolRN wrote:And BTW, Kate Spade is David Spade's sister-in-law.
Yeah, but only through marriage.
Is there a joke I'm missing here, or is there another way to be someone's sister-in-law?
Evidently yes, and and most definitely no.

Homeresque humor. ("They have the internet on computers now?")

Can't you just see it?
Marge: Homer, be nice to Selma! She's your sister in law!
Homer: Yeah, but only through marriage.
seaborgium
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by seaborgium »

Paucle wrote:
seaborgium wrote: Is there a joke I'm missing here, or is there another way to be someone's sister-in-law?
Evidently yes, and and most definitely no.

Homeresque humor. ("They have the internet on computers now?")

Can't you just see it?
Marge: Homer, be nice to Selma! She's your sister in law!
Homer: Yeah, but only through marriage.
Yes, I can! Kudos.
Bamaman
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Re: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOIL

Post by Bamaman »

Just got to watch this game, great job by Joon!!!

i'll bet Jeopkid is screaming "That FJ was supposed to be in my game!!!!".

Pures category was horrible. I was hoping for a Vera bradley clue, as my wife has spent a bunch of money on them. The $1,600 Sports clus? Glad it wasn't a DD or I'd have lost all my imaginary money on that one.

Retro good luck to Joon and katiedid tomorrow. Oh, what am I saying, I know how they did already!!!
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