Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
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Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
In my opinion it's absolutely unjust to select people at random, not entirely by their score at the online test. Some of the most qualified/smartest people never get a chance to shine & take advantage of their knowledge due to that selection model.
Who shares my pain?
Who shares my pain?
- BobF
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
I thought Maggie was the Jeopardy! selection model. My only complaint about her is that she hasn't selected me yet.
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- Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Disclosure -- since I have been on the show, I am liable to have a bias.
That being said, remember that J! isn't about only bringing up "the best and brightest" as contestants to the exclusion of all else. Scoring well on the online/onsite tests in and of themselves isn't a guarantee of success, just as scoring a perfect SAT score won't insure that you get into an Ivy League school (doesn't hurt, but they look at other things).
Remember, this is a TV show. That means entertainment. Being an smart or an excellent trivia player is no guarantee in and unto itself. And it means that, yes, some folks of a different group (fill in the blank) might have a larger representation on the show compared to the number that try out. Or that those with better stories might be selected over another contestant.
One of the realizations that we contestants have to come to is that, at the second round, you're in a room full of bright people. The trick isn't how to show you are brighter than everyone else, but what make you a better potential television show contestant than they are. Be the needle in the haystack rather than another stalk of hay.
I'll give you a story from 20 years ago, when I was at the DC tryouts. In those days, you sent in a postcard, they (might) send you a letter telling you to report at a certain time and place, and you'd take the test there, and it'd be immediately graded and the group culled. Out of a group of about 200, they picked 14 and sent the rest home and did the mock game, interview questions, etc. (Obviously, this was well before Maggie and Company were part of the gang.) One of the guys who passed basically spent his entire "tell us about you" spiel saying that it was the seventh time he'd passed the test, and giving them all kinds of grief because they hadn't already chosen for him for taping. I suspect he passed the test quite a few more times, because I never did see him on the show.
That being said, remember that J! isn't about only bringing up "the best and brightest" as contestants to the exclusion of all else. Scoring well on the online/onsite tests in and of themselves isn't a guarantee of success, just as scoring a perfect SAT score won't insure that you get into an Ivy League school (doesn't hurt, but they look at other things).
Remember, this is a TV show. That means entertainment. Being an smart or an excellent trivia player is no guarantee in and unto itself. And it means that, yes, some folks of a different group (fill in the blank) might have a larger representation on the show compared to the number that try out. Or that those with better stories might be selected over another contestant.
One of the realizations that we contestants have to come to is that, at the second round, you're in a room full of bright people. The trick isn't how to show you are brighter than everyone else, but what make you a better potential television show contestant than they are. Be the needle in the haystack rather than another stalk of hay.
I'll give you a story from 20 years ago, when I was at the DC tryouts. In those days, you sent in a postcard, they (might) send you a letter telling you to report at a certain time and place, and you'd take the test there, and it'd be immediately graded and the group culled. Out of a group of about 200, they picked 14 and sent the rest home and did the mock game, interview questions, etc. (Obviously, this was well before Maggie and Company were part of the gang.) One of the guys who passed basically spent his entire "tell us about you" spiel saying that it was the seventh time he'd passed the test, and giving them all kinds of grief because they hadn't already chosen for him for taping. I suspect he passed the test quite a few more times, because I never did see him on the show.
- georgespelvin
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
For those thinking it--no, that person Spaceman Spiff is talking about is NOT me.
- BobF
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Okay, here's a more serious answer. To quote JFK, "Life is not fair". Some people will have awesome things happen to them that will make others think that they don't deserve it. Some people who are deserving of those awesome things will instead have terrible luck. Don't worry about anybody else, worry about you. Comparison is a thief of joy.konstava wrote:In my opinion it's absolutely unjust to select people at random, not entirely by their score at the online test. Some of the most qualified/smartest people never get a chance to shine & take advantage of their knowledge due to that selection model.
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- DefCon4
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Exactly. Ultimately, there are many many more times people who want to be Jeopardy (and might be good contestants, and even further might be good contestants who are good on TV) than slots for contestants. Literally any process is going to skip over a number of such swimmers, but at least the current process lets them get in the pool.BobF wrote: Okay, here's a more serious answer. To quote JFK, "Life is not fair". Some people will have awesome things happen to them that will make others think that they don't deserve it. Some people who are deserving of those awesome things will instead have terrible luck. Don't worry about anybody else, worry about you. Comparison is a thief of joy.
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Just to pile on, I'd be careful to show any sign of grievance when auditioning. They're looking for people who view the chance as a great opportunity, and who show enthusiasm. Eeyore is never going appear on the show.
- TheSunWillComeOut
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Good advice here. And keep in mind that the contestant coordinators visit this site and read the posts. If they tie a username calling their methods "unjust" back to a real name, that wouldn't help that person's chances any, you know? They don't want somebody doing that at every stage of the taping process, too.Woof wrote:Just to pile on, I'd be careful to show any sign of grievance when auditioning. They're looking for people who view the chance as a great opportunity, and who show enthusiasm. Eeyore is never going appear on the show.
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Jeopardy! is first and foremost a television show with characters that fit a certain profile. Anybody who comes to an audition with the attitude that they're the smartest person in the room (and doesn't have tongue planted firmly in cheek) is going to be the first person out the door.
- triviawayne
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Random drawings generally mean I don't get picked, but that's the way it goes.
While I agree with all stated before me here, to get back to the original post, I have to ask since the show can only see maybe 2500 of 10,000 who pass, how would you suggest they break the ties since I'm sure they could more than fill the group with those who scored say 45/50?
While I agree with all stated before me here, to get back to the original post, I have to ask since the show can only see maybe 2500 of 10,000 who pass, how would you suggest they break the ties since I'm sure they could more than fill the group with those who scored say 45/50?
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- patkav
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Even if the only selection criterion were test scores, there would still be many, many more people qualified than the show could possibly slot. What would you have them do to solve this problem?
- Blue Lion
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Exactly. If I'm invited to audition this year, the fact that I'm 64 years old and don't exactly look like Harrison Ford will weigh against me. That said, getting a chance to audition means I'll have a non-zero chance of getting The Call, and I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I'm smart enough to get into the pool.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Remember, this is a TV show. That means entertainment. Being an smart or an excellent trivia player is no guarantee in and unto itself. And it means that, yes, some folks of a different group (fill in the blank) might have a larger representation on the show compared to the number that try out. Or that those with better stories might be selected over another contestant.
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
This. All this. Every word of it (which is why I didn't trim this long post, it deserves repeating). Spiff's been on the show, so he "gets it".Spaceman Spiff wrote:Disclosure -- since I have been on the show, I am liable to have a bias.
That being said, remember that J! isn't about only bringing up "the best and brightest" as contestants to the exclusion of all else. Scoring well on the online/onsite tests in and of themselves isn't a guarantee of success, just as scoring a perfect SAT score won't insure that you get into an Ivy League school (doesn't hurt, but they look at other things).
Remember, this is a TV show. That means entertainment. Being an smart or an excellent trivia player is no guarantee in and unto itself. And it means that, yes, some folks of a different group (fill in the blank) might have a larger representation on the show compared to the number that try out. Or that those with better stories might be selected over another contestant.
One of the realizations that we contestants have to come to is that, at the second round, you're in a room full of bright people. The trick isn't how to show you are brighter than everyone else, but what make you a better potential television show contestant than they are. Be the needle in the haystack rather than another stalk of hay.
I'll give you a story from 20 years ago, when I was at the DC tryouts. In those days, you sent in a postcard, they (might) send you a letter telling you to report at a certain time and place, and you'd take the test there, and it'd be immediately graded and the group culled. Out of a group of about 200, they picked 14 and sent the rest home and did the mock game, interview questions, etc. (Obviously, this was well before Maggie and Company were part of the gang.) One of the guys who passed basically spent his entire "tell us about you" spiel saying that it was the seventh time he'd passed the test, and giving them all kinds of grief because they hadn't already chosen for him for taping. I suspect he passed the test quite a few more times, because I never did see him on the show.
Or, to quote my favourite movie: "Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."BobF wrote: Okay, here's a more serious answer. To quote JFK, "Life is not fair".
As succinctly shown by Spaceman Spiff's specimen of a seven-time swimmer. (Alliteration only partly unintended)TheSunWillComeOut wrote:Good advice here. And keep in mind that the contestant coordinators visit this site and read the posts. If they tie a username calling their methods "unjust" back to a real name, that wouldn't help that person's chances any, you know? They don't want somebody doing that at every stage of the taping process, too.Woof wrote:Just to pile on, I'd be careful to show any sign of grievance when auditioning. They're looking for people who view the chance as a great opportunity, and who show enthusiasm. Eeyore is never going appear on the show.
Tiebreaker questions! Duh!triviawayne wrote:Random drawings generally mean I don't get picked, but that's the way it goes.
While I agree with all stated before me here, to get back to the original post, I have to ask since the show can only see maybe 2500 of 10,000 who pass, how would you suggest they break the ties since I'm sure they could more than fill the group with those who scored say 45/50?
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me
"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings
Follow my progress game by game since 2012
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- skullturf
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Being 64 years old could possibly be in your favor -- if they decide they need a few more contestants over the age of 55 or 60.Blue Lion wrote:If I'm invited to audition this year, the fact that I'm 64 years old and don't exactly look like Harrison Ford will weigh against me.
Then again, it's possible that your age will count against you at some auditions, and count in your favor at other auditions, just depending on who else is in the group, who else they have picked recently, and so on.
I live in Florida. Maybe they want more Floridians at some times, and fewer Floridians at other times. Maybe it depends on who they've had on recently, maybe it depends on the show's relationship with various regional affiliate stations, and so on.
Like many other people, I occasionally find the randomness of life to be a little bit frustrating, but my advice to anyone reading this thread is to try to make peace with the fact that contestant selection has significant elements of randomness and to just have patience and enjoy the process.
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
1) "Random" plays only a small part in the selection process.konstava wrote:In my opinion it's absolutely unjust to select people at random
2) "Justice" plays an even smaller part.
The Jeopardy! selection process is casting. Your complaint is analogous to complaining, "It's absolutely unjust to select people at random as cast members for Saturday Night Live."
Rex
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
There are three primary factors driving their selection criteria: ratings, ratings, and ratings.
- hbomb1947
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
This. Being smart enough to pass the online test will get you in the door (although there are so many people who can do that that TPTB have no choice but to resort to random selection for audition invites. Maybe that's the "randomness" that the OP was referring to), but smarts are a necessary but not sufficient condition for being a good contestant on a TV quiz show. The producers are creating an entertainment product. If they consistently picked as contestants people who looked like they just emerged from their parents' basement and had the personality of a turnip, the show would be unlikely to appeal to lots of viewers. Things like stage presence, not freezing up under the lights, and being engaging matter -- and rightly so. And so does choosing a diverse mix of contestants, both demographically and geographically. This isn't the 1950s, and if 90% of the contestants were middle-aged white male lawyers or accountants from large northeastern or California cities, they would have trouble appealing to a diverse and modern viewing audience. (Plus, when more people from groups that have historically been underrepresented in quizzing competitions and quiz shows, such as women and African-Americans, appear on J!, that can inspire more people from those groups to try out for the show, which is a good thing.) But I would say that even if you're in a category that's overrepresented among applicants, if your audition performance makes the case that you would be a good fit for their entertainment product, you can still get chosen. The key thing here is that this isn't about you as an individual applicant; regardless of where you live or what demographic group you belong to, you need to make the case why it's in J!''s interest to invite you to Culver City.Rex Kramer wrote:1) "Random" plays only a small part in the selection process.konstava wrote:In my opinion it's absolutely unjust to select people at random
2) "Justice" plays an even smaller part.
The Jeopardy! selection process is casting. Your complaint is analogous to complaining, "It's absolutely unjust to select people at random as cast members for Saturday Night Live."
Rex
Ultimately it's their show, their rules; no one should ever view himself as having an entitlement to be cast on it just because he thinks he's really smart. Nor is it an "injustice" to not be selected for a TV show.
As the verbiage under my avatar indicates, I've been trying for a while to make it onto J! Am I disappointed that I haven't gotten The Call yet? Sure, anyone would be; but I'm not bitter about it. I'm going to keep trying (striving on each occasion to come across even better to the contestant coordinators), and I will remain optimistic that my time will come. And in the meantime, I will continue to enjoy watching America's favorite quiz show!
Last edited by hbomb1947 on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
BTW, rereading his original post, and combining it with his most recent post before that it seems that the OP's gripe isn't of those that get randomly selected to get The Call even though there's many others that pass the test and are "good TV" and won't, simply because the first person was randomly selected from the swimmers, but rather the randomness in getting The Email from those that passed the test (which isn't dependent on tv ability because they don't know how suitable you are for TV at that point). But, as someone here often says (and even has it in his damn .sig!), Jeopardy! is all about luck, including the luck of randomly selected to get The Email, and the luck to be Called out of the pool. At the test level, I admit it is very haphazard as to who gets called and who doesn't, but they want to have a good cross section of people, in case they have a lot of Jennifer Morrows that scored 36 or 37 on the quiz and a lot of milquetoasts that scored 49 or 50, and in order to email people from all over the passing spectrum to find their diamonds in the rough to put on tv, it has to be random.
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
I am in complete agreement with the following previously made points:
1. Jeopardy! is a television program seeking an audience.
2. Life is frequently unfair.
3. Even if the very highest scorers were selected, their number would far exceed the number of contestants the show needs. Changing the process for awarding in-person audition slots, then, just shifts any inherent unfairness around, rather than resolving it.
I would add:
A. Jeopardy! doesn't really owe us anything. Well, as of Wednesday night, I guess it owes Kyle about $27,000, but it doesn't owe most of us anything. Not former contestants, not hopefuls, not loyal fans. Jeopardy! can select us how it likes, and if we're selected, it can ask us what it likes--even if it likes to ask us questions about "Incredibly Specific Wedding Vows," "Stupid Answers" or "Those Darn Etruscans." [ETA: Oh...hbomb kind of made this point already. It probably belongs in the first section. No offense intended, hbomb.]
B. Choosing the highest scorers on a one-time, 50-question test is hardly a guarantee of finding the "best contestants." Even if "best contestants" means "contestants who know the most" (and I don't think it does), a single 50-question test isn't going to be a foolproof way to find them. Then on top of that, there's a lot more to playing Jeopardy! well than knowing stuff: there's rapid recall, there's timing, there's ability to deduce quickly what you don't know. If a 50-question test can't measure these things, then why on earth should it be the be-all and end-all? I think it shouldn't.
Just my opinion. Nobody need feel obliged to share it.
1. Jeopardy! is a television program seeking an audience.
2. Life is frequently unfair.
3. Even if the very highest scorers were selected, their number would far exceed the number of contestants the show needs. Changing the process for awarding in-person audition slots, then, just shifts any inherent unfairness around, rather than resolving it.
I would add:
A. Jeopardy! doesn't really owe us anything. Well, as of Wednesday night, I guess it owes Kyle about $27,000, but it doesn't owe most of us anything. Not former contestants, not hopefuls, not loyal fans. Jeopardy! can select us how it likes, and if we're selected, it can ask us what it likes--even if it likes to ask us questions about "Incredibly Specific Wedding Vows," "Stupid Answers" or "Those Darn Etruscans." [ETA: Oh...hbomb kind of made this point already. It probably belongs in the first section. No offense intended, hbomb.]
B. Choosing the highest scorers on a one-time, 50-question test is hardly a guarantee of finding the "best contestants." Even if "best contestants" means "contestants who know the most" (and I don't think it does), a single 50-question test isn't going to be a foolproof way to find them. Then on top of that, there's a lot more to playing Jeopardy! well than knowing stuff: there's rapid recall, there's timing, there's ability to deduce quickly what you don't know. If a 50-question test can't measure these things, then why on earth should it be the be-all and end-all? I think it shouldn't.
Just my opinion. Nobody need feel obliged to share it.
- jjwaymee
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Re: Who thinks that Jeopardy selection model is unfair?
Not me.konstava wrote:In my opinion it's absolutely unjust to select people at random, not entirely by their score at the online test. Some of the most qualified/smartest people never get a chance to shine & take advantage of their knowledge due to that selection model.
Who shares my pain?
You incorrectly assume several things:
1) People who score the highest on the contestant test are "smartest people".
Small sample size. Everybody has weaknesses in their knowledge. Specific score is wholly dependent on the 50 questions that come up on the night you take the test. My last five contestant test scores have a variance of 6 points from highest to lowest. Was I that much smarter on one test versus the other? That small sample size phenomenon also rears its ugly head during game play. One or two categories (even one or two clues) outside your wheelhouse can sink you, no matter how knowledgable you are. Just ask Roger Craig about Super Bowl champions if you don't agree.
2) People who score the highest on the contestant test are the best suited to play the game.
Let's get real. On any given night, all three contestants know the correct response for about 35-40 of the 61 clues. The game material isn't Quiz Bowl Championship caliber. My 15-year-old niece could get 20 right on most nights. This segways into the third assumption...
3) People who score highest on the contestant test will be the best game players
Knowing every one of the correct answers is -- at best -- about 25% of being a successful contestant and about 10% of the contestant coordinators' formula for being good television. Nobody wins any prize money if the television show doesn't have an audience. Nobody watches the show if the contestants consistently can't choose a category succinctly, talk softly, stutter, "ummmm", etc. So a diverse and large population of potential contestants is required to cast a show that is successful.