Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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This Is Kirk!
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

I'm not sure why we should feel sorrier for Jerry than for anyone else whose gone on the show and lost.

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mystcmage
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by mystcmage »

37R/5W, $28200
FJ: :)

This watched like one of my J! nightmares since I often forget the category at home and could easily see myself getting frustrated if the buzzer does not cooperate.
I would certainly try to run out the gimmick category before any others if I ever went on the show.

After the hype, I expected a blowout, but score one for Pavlov knowledge this game.
I counted 15, including Platte River and FJ.
Spoiler
j|5261|11 JUST DEAL!
Klondike is a type of this card game also called patience ;; Klondike card game
solitaire
j|5261|13 JUST DEAL!
Originating in Uruguay, this rummy-like card game means "basket" in Spanish ;; Spanish for "basket" ;; rummy-like card game
canasta
j|5261|14 JUST DEAL!
The croupier deals the cards in this casino game whose French name means "railroad", referring to the speed of the game ;; French railroad game
chemin-de-fer
j|5261|20 MY COUNTRY
Leaders Justin Trudeau & Brian Mulroney ;; Brian Mulroney ; Mulroney country ; Trudeau country
Canada
j|5261|23 MY COUNTRY
Men of letters Jorge Luis Borges & Manuel Puig ;; Jorge Luis Borges
Argentina
j|5261|27 'TIS "OF THE" MOVIE
Nick Frost has a friendly reminder for Simon Pegg in this zombie flick: "Don't forget to kill Philip!" ;; Simon Pegg film
Shaun of the Dead
j|5261|30 THE BROAD
Artists want us to think about familiar images like this man, who has described the flag as seen, but not looked at ;; Painter of flags ;; flag paintings
Johns
j|5261|33 THE BROAD
The most requested artist for loan in the collection is this Haitian-American who mixed pop culture & high art ;; Haitian-American
Basquiat
j|5261|36 U.S. GEOGRAPHY
The largest area of sand dunes in the U.S. lies mainly in this state, north of the Platte River ;; North Platte River ;; North Platte state ;; Platte River state ;; Platte state ;; state, north of the Platte River
Nebraska
j|5261|37 U.S. GEOGRAPHY
The east end of Long Island is AKA this area with a plural name & many wealthy occupants ;; Long Island + area
the Hamptons
j|5261|43 GOVERNMENTAL LAST NAME'S THE SAME
A late Tennessee senator/Hollywood actor & the Secretary of Health & Human Services from 2001 to 2005 ;; senator and actor
Thompson
j|5261|51 WORLD WAR II
In 1944 this field marshal & Afrika Korps leader was implicated in a plot to assassinate Hitler ;; Afrika Korps ; Afrika Korps in WWII
Rommel
j|5261|55 "LIP" SERVICE
Fats, oils & steroid hormones are these ;; fats, oils
lipids
j|5261|57 "LIP" SERVICE
The Spanish Riding School in Vienna trains them ;; Spanish Riding School in Vienna
Lipizzaners
j|5261|61 LITERARY QUOTES
More than once this 1897 novel quotes from Deuteronomy, "The blood is the life" ;; 1897 novel
Dracula

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

This Is Kirk! wrote:I'm not sure why we should feel sorrier for Jerry than for anyone else whose gone on the show and lost.
I generally don't care who wins. I will root for a boardie or an older player but that's about it. He may be a quiz bowl hot shot, but that doesn't mean the other players wanted to win any less than he did.

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StevenH
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by StevenH »

I didn't see the episode because I don't have cable anymore (and have a lousy Internet connection where I live now), but I looked at the game in the archive. I was pulling for Jerry, and am disappointed to see that one of the top 10, maybe top 5 greatest college quiz bowl players of all time came so close to being a J! champion but just couldn't finish the deal on the 61st clue. Matt Jackson was able to benefit from buzzer speed and getting the call when the boards were in one of their more academic phases. It appears that Jerry also had decent luck in those regards, but the stars still didn't align for him like they did for Matt.

I agree that there shouldn't have been all that hype for Jerry. As far as I know he has never been active with anything like LL or WQC and wasn't known for being a good TRASH player in quiz bowl, so there was no way to know how he would do on J! material, which is an entirely different beast than quiz bowl. I also agree that we shouldn't be any more sad for Jerry than for any one else who has lost in their first game, though I do hope that more of the titans of modern quiz bowl will follow in Jerry's and Matt's steps and get the call.

And here is Jerry's page in the quiz bowl wiki: http://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/view/Jerry_Vinokurov

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This Is Kirk!
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

StevenH wrote:Matt Jackson was able to benefit from buzzer speed and getting the call when the boards were in one of their more academic phases. It appears that Jerry also had decent luck in those regards, but the stars still didn't align for him like they did for Matt.
Actually I don't feel like Jerry did all that well with the buzzer. Certainly not clearly better than the other two players.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by teapot37 »

Winchell Factor wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote:Alex and his Turkish voice? That would have been the worst thing I heard today except I watched Celebrity Name Game. The answer was Indian Ocean. The contestant said something about a body of water and then did a stereotypical Native American war cry with the hand popping on and off the mouth.

Host, Craig Ferguson, was in the background and could be seen looking away aghast.
Whoa, that's going to be awkward at the watch party.

You can really hear a whole lot of misinformation on the wrong game shows, can't you?

"OK, this is a composer, and he's really famous...I think he's Belgian?"
"Mozart?"
"Right!"
Reminds me of the old "Common Knowledge" sketch from SNL. "Remember, it's not what you know, it's what you THINK you know!"
Not many people can say they've lost four times on Jeopardy!.

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Rex Kramer
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Rex Kramer »

MDaunt wrote:
Stanislaus Jacob wrote:Instead of viewing this as a fiasco, we should put a more positive spin on it. Anyone who has been on Jeopardy! and lost can cite this as evidence that you can be very knowledgeable and still lose. Many things (including sheer good or bad luck) play a role.
Everyone who has been on Jeopardy! is very knowledgable and literally every player can win against every other player given a couple of good questions and a bit of luck. The difference between a lock and a loss can be one question and that question can be anything.
Amen. Word. Truth.

Rex

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Johnblue »

StevenH wrote:I didn't see the episode because I don't have cable anymore (and have a lousy Internet connection where I live now), but I looked at the game in the archive. I was pulling for Jerry, and am disappointed to see that one of the top 10, maybe top 5 greatest college quiz bowl players of all time came so close to being a J! champion but just couldn't finish the deal on the 61st clue. Matt Jackson was able to benefit from buzzer speed and getting the call when the boards were in one of their more academic phases. It appears that Jerry also had decent luck in those regards, but the stars still didn't align for him like they did for Matt.

I agree that there shouldn't have been all that hype for Jerry. As far as I know he has never been active with anything like LL or WQC and wasn't known for being a good TRASH player in quiz bowl, so there was no way to know how he would do on J! material, which is an entirely different beast than quiz bowl. I also agree that we shouldn't be any more sad for Jerry than for any one else who has lost in their first game, though I do hope that more of the titans of modern quiz bowl will follow in Jerry's and Matt's steps and get the call.

And here is Jerry's page in the quiz bowl wiki: http://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/view/Jerry_Vinokurov

Did he write his own page?

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TheSunWillComeOut »

I cringe a bit whenever I see anybody hyped up in advance - and not even just for known quizzing legends, but also friends and family bragging that their loved one is so smart and good at trivia that they have to have crushed it. Remember that literally anyone who gets on the show can win a game - and yes, that goes for the apparent strugglers, all they need is to play possum in FJ against an opponent who doesn't have a lockout and makes the cover bet on an FJ they don't know. If one wants to go there, the way to do it is not to say, "oh, too bad for the other players for the week, so-and-so clearly crushed it," but to speak of it in horse-racing terms, where a challenger has excellent ODDS of going on a long run. However, just like in horse racing, the favorite in the Daily Racing Form doesn't always win the race. Otherwise, there'd be no point in the race itself.

If you have two strong players going head-to-head, there becomes a poInt where extra knowledge doesn't pay off as much as you think it might. Maybe for an extra couple thousand, but Jeopardy! doesn't reward deep familiarity with a subject - a workaholic rocket scientist does not have as much of an advantage as someone who knows the basics of the space program and also listens to mainstream pop music. I say this mainly to remind aspiring contestants that mastering Jeopardy! is not only about mastering the canon but mastering how the canon works in the context of the show. I usually try not to overanalyze decisions made under fire, but Germinal - a title I had to look up, and I'm glad I did, because I've now learned a lot about the actual work of my own 1st-game FJ Emile Zola beyond his Pavlovian connection with Dreyfus - is not a response that will ever appear in Final Jeopardy. It's only turned up in the context of other clues, aside from a last-row clue that called for it via lateral thinking regarding the meaning of the word. Outside of Tournament play, FJ is designed to reward a significant proportion of the home viewers who can say, "aha, I know this one" and feel good at having impressed their families. There are certain boundaries in what the writers seek that make it both easier and harder - easier because you limit your mental search pool to set parameters, harder because you must first determine where those parameters are. Remember that Jeopardy! is a show where Jean Sibelius is the only composer in the history of Finland. Other parameters are not quite so simple, but they are much simpler than those who believe that Jeopardy! is a show that "could ask about anything" would have it.

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boson
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by boson »

Many quizbowl skills transfer well to jeopardy (knowledge base, quick recall, etc.). Others don't. You need to know how Jeopardy asks questions, be fast on the buzzer (and not ring in too early, unlike quizbowl), and recognize that questions are not super academic or pyramidally structured. Ironically, the quizbowl of today is probably a lot less useful preparation for Jeopardy than the quizbowl of when I played (late cretaceous), when the questions were often short, fast and ugly.

I predicted that Roger Craig would be someone to watch at Jeopardy before he played - but I couldn't have predicted just how well it would go. Roger rather famously worked really hard to adapt from quizbowl to Jeopardy. I didn't get that feeling from Jerry.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Winchell Factor »

Stanislaus Jacob wrote:
Winchell Factor wrote:You can really hear a whole lot of misinformation on the wrong game shows, can't you?

"OK, this is a composer, and he's really famous...I think he's Belgian?"
"Mozart?"
"Right!"
I thought it was Aristotle who was rumored to be Belgian.
D'oh! Funny movie, great speech, and I missed an opportunity.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Winchell Factor »

teapot37 wrote:
Winchell Factor wrote:You can really hear a whole lot of misinformation on the wrong game shows, can't you?

"OK, this is a composer, and he's really famous...I think he's Belgian?"
"Mozart?"
"Right!"
Reminds me of the old "Common Knowledge" sketch from SNL. "Remember, it's not what you know, it's what you THINK you know!"
I was totally thinking of that sketch. But A Fish Called Wanda (see above) actually hadn't crossed my mind.

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StevenH
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by StevenH »

Johnblue wrote: Did he write his own page?
Not sure

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by grapesmoker »

grindcore wrote:Shall we agree not to build contestants up based on their other trivia achievements before their episodes air?
hey, it me

I honestly have no idea why anyone would hype me up except as a joke. There are obviously skills that translate from quizbowl and skills that don't; plenty of great quizbowl players have not done particularly well on Jeopardy.
Lots of guessing in this game. You could tell Jerry really wanted to win.
Are there people on who don't want to win? I see no point in playing conservatively; I made some educated guesses that didn't pan out, and had some brain-farts on the "of the" category despite knowing the form of the answer. But I didn't know the actual answers anyway.
I never thought I'd see three whiffs at a Nebraska clue when spotted Platte.
Indiana has a notable national park literally called the Indiana Dunes. I wanted to say Nebraska but that extra information threw me off.
He didn't seem to be listening very well. Not only did he forget the "of the" category but he kept giving the full Dickens titles after it was clear that only the word was required. And I know this is small, but he mispronounced Broad after Alex correctly pronounced it with a long o...And Tom Thumb instead of Gulliver?
I gave the full title because speaking the full title was actually easier than parsing out the exact word. Sure, that's weird, but that was actually easier for me. Also, Henry Fielding wrote a 1730 play titled "Tom Thumb," so that guess was not entirely off-base.
Well, at least the guy who has called me an annoying jerk, colossal t**l, and annoying d*ck choked on an easy FJ. Schadenfreude!
Oh man, this is great! I had no idea Jason Mueller was lurking in the bowels of JBoard, just waiting like a sad little man for the opportunity to feel a tiny reprieve from the unending pain of existence that comes from watching a person do something silly on national TV! For those who don't know, Mueller was run out of quizbowl on a rail for being an insufferable tryhard who wouldn't stop posting thinly (or not-at-all) veiled intimations about his quizbowl greatness. Good times, dog, keep on keeping on!
I had avoided JBoard until I had a chance to watch Monday's and Tuesday's episodes last night, so I had no idea of the hype about Jerry. The main things I noticed while watching were forgetting the "of the" category twice and missing a fairly easy FJ! I agree with a previous poster that he would have done better if he had spent more time becoming fluent in J! conventions (not only category requirements, but expected difficulty at the various dollar levels and the way hints are embedded in clues).
I spent about a month preparing, which coincidentally was all the time I had, since I was notified in February of a tape date in March. I'm reasonably familiar with the Jeopardy conventions, but I've played quizbowl for 15 years (20 if you count high school) and you don't shake off 15 years of training in a few weeks. For better or for worse (worse, obviously) my playing style and general reflexes were formed by the thing I spent 15 years on, not the thing I spent 4 weeks on. So it goes.
As far as I know he has never been active with anything like LL or WQC and wasn't known for being a good TRASH player in quiz bowl, so there was no way to know how he would do on J! material, which is an entirely different beast than quiz bowl. I also agree that we shouldn't be any more sad for Jerry than for any one else who has lost in their first game, though I do hope that more of the titans of modern quiz bowl will follow in Jerry's and Matt's steps and get the call.
I've never done any of those things. I suck at trash though I know a fair bit of football and a good deal about the modern NBA, none of which helped me here (my music speciality of "thorough knowledge of the entire Magnetic Fields discography" was likewise useless). I don't see why anyone should be sad for me; I was frustrated with myself for missing the obvious FJ, but hey, that's life.
Did he write his own page?
No, and if you click on the history, you'll see that I had nothing to do with it.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod »

Welcome, Jerry. Thanks for dropping by. I hope you stick around.
grapesmoker wrote:
I never thought I'd see three whiffs at a Nebraska clue when spotted Platte.
Indiana has a notable national park literally called the Indiana Dunes. I wanted to say Nebraska but that extra information threw me off.
I was going to point out that the biggest and most impressive sand dunes that I have ever seen are in Indiana, so simply missing one word in the clue (like the word Platte, for instance) can lead you there. Many many times around these parts, Boardies have admitted to missing an important word in a clue, and therefore being led astray.

That is not the same as "thinking the Platte River is in Indiana".

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Johnblue »

Wow, I'd never heard of the Indiana dunes & I used to drive right near it once or twice a year when I lived in Ohio & went to Chicago.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr »

bpmod wrote:That is not the same as "thinking the Platte River is in Indiana".
The lights. They make you do strange things.

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This Is Kirk!
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

I said Colorado since Great Sand Dunes National Park is in Colorado and the Platte River is, too. That clue was certainly no gimme.

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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer »

I honestly didn't know that Indiana has dunes.
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This Is Kirk!
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Re: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

TenPoundHammer wrote:I honestly didn't know that Indiana has dunes.
There are dunes along much of the southern and eastern shore of Lake Michigan. Have you ever been to Sleeping Bear Dunes west of Traverse City? If not, you should go sometime. Very cool.

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