Friday, November 4, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 10319
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by opusthepenguin »

seaborgium wrote:Speaking from experience, I can tell you that the players who remain sequestered at the lunch break don't even get to leave the green room!
Bob Harris said that he and the other players got escorted to the cafeteria for lunch. Sounds like things have changed since then. Or maybe your group looked extra shifty?
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by seaborgium »

I wish I'd been up there to answer marmot, deliberately mispronouncing it to rhyme with "bot," and then when Alex inevitably corrected me, I could have said, "Yeah, but it doesn't rhyme that way!", thereby getting a dig in at Alex and the writers simultaneously.

It reminds me of that stupid Old Navy commercial where they try (and fail) to rhyme "classics" with "wicks."
User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 10319
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by opusthepenguin »

Congrats, Joon! Like the others, I expected a strong showing; but you just ran away with it.

Tom and John, it was great to see you on the show again. Sorry it was such a rough time. Loved your humorous FJ responses.

That really was a brutal board. How many triple stumpers were there, anyway? And it wasn't because the players were weaker than expected or the clues just happened to target gaps in their collective knowledge. It's not like the missus and I were yelling at our TV set here at home. We stared at those stumpers with comical question marks over our heads, just like the players.

Nice tease-out with hemostat, Joon. I got as far as "hemo" and didn't know where to go from there. Mrs. Penguin, couldn't get started. But when she heard me say "hemo", she suggested "hemostat". So you're the equal of both of us combined.
User avatar
dhkendall
Pursuing the Dream
Posts: 8789
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Contact:

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by dhkendall »

econgator wrote:
dhkendall wrote:Which reminds me, while it was an instaget, I was sweating over the spelling of "Algonquin" for most of the 30 seconds. "Algonquan? Algonquian? I'm sure I've heard the latter pronunciation (my spellcheck on my computer didn't even tag it like it tagged "Algonquan"), but with an extra syllable, that's the difference between life and death with an incorrect FJ! response, not like a clue during the regular game where I could try to elide over it and split the difference. I wrote it down as "Algonqu an", enough space to slide in an I if need be, but decided against the I at the last minute. Due to J! pronunciation rules, it should be accepted, I couldn't tell whether Joon wrote an "a" or an "i" though it was so small.
The Algonquin are an aboriginal people mostly native to Quebec. The Algonquian are a Native American people (and language) from many parts of North America. The former is essentially a subset of the latter.
True, but we're dealing with the given name of something. And the first word in the name of Dorothy Parker's club (as was the name of the hotel they met in that lent its name to the group) was invariably "Algonquin".
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings

Follow my progress game by game since 2012
User avatar
goforthetie
(username no longer operative)
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by goforthetie »

So it seems the emerging consensus is "Round Table" yes, "Algonquin Club" no... but what about "Algonquin Table"? Pretty please with sugar on top?

I wonder how long it took Tom to draw that face.
code65536
Contributor
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:48 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by code65536 »

That was a really difficult board, in comparison to the past two days. That hemostat tease-out was great. I got as far as "hemo", but had no idea where to go from there. And I think I felt the same as John and Tom with respect to that FJ. :(
jgpeterson
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by jgpeterson »

goforthetie wrote:So it seems the emerging consensus is "Round Table" yes, "Algonquin Club" no... but what about "Algonquin Table"? Pretty please with sugar on top?

I wonder how long it took Tom to draw that face.
I bet "Algonquin Table" would get a specificity prompt. But maybe the judges would consider it as incomplete as King Arthur and the Knights of the Table!
jgpeterson
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by jgpeterson »

StevenH wrote:Congrats to Joon on the win!

I have to be honest...I really thought that this board was, for the most part, garbage. I really did not care for the mapmaker, mapmaker category. And I thought that the $2000 clue in measurements was the easiest one in that category. The FJ category also seemed kind of vague...it was hard to know what kind of "group" the clue would be about. I would blame the board for the result of the game more than the contestants. TPTB, seriously, I am willing to quit my job and move to Los Angeles to be a writer for the show!

It looked like Joon might have known a little bit more of the material than John and Tom but it looked like it was mainly the buzzer that enabled him to build such a huge lead.

The FJ clue seemed like a good clue...but I had no idea on it.

I liked how Alex recognized that this may be the best ToC field ever. I think that he was mainly saying that because of all the money that they had won, and they all played under the doubled dollar amounts and the sky's the limit rule, but it was still cool.
I don't think it was mainly the buzzer. The impact of digging respective holes for Tom and John early in the game against a player like Joon can't be underestimated.
User avatar
jeff6286
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 5228
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by jeff6286 »

I was so hoping that one of the players would respond with "Who is the Juggernaut, bitch?!", although Alex may have taken that the wrong way.
harrumph
Voyeur
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Princeton, NJ

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by harrumph »

For FJ I had "Who are the Algonquins", which I will assume is a neg unless I'm told otherwise.

The Ken Burns series on Prohibition mentioned Bugs Moran, I don't know if PBS showed it before or after the taping.
User avatar
jpahk
Jeopardy! TOCer
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:16 am

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by jpahk »

thanks everybody. i'm just as stunned as the rest of you at how well this game went for me. i don't really have an explanation for it—i think we were all nervous, but maybe me getting a few easy lit clues early helped me settle in, though it does not really explain my bugsy malone neg, or inexplicably blanking on INXS.

the marmot clue frustrated the hell out of me. i was thinking marmot the whole time, but it just. doesn't. fit. the. category. grr.

i don't really know how i pulled hemostat. i think i spent the whole time staring at the words of the clue on the board, not the picture of the device on the big monitor. hemo- was obvious, but i couldn't do much with the rest of it. eventually when alex asked me to say something, i just kind of went with a word i thought i might have heard before. in retrospect, "static" = motionless would have really helped me with the second half. but it was really the kind of thing that just goes to show you we don't really understand how our brains work.

i loved john's interview and his hilarious reactions this game. if you haven't read his blog, you absolutely must. taste my sad!

also, tom's FJ rage face was simply epic. check out this incredible cartoon he posted on reddit.
Last edited by jpahk on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 8980
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by alietr »

jpahk wrote:i don't really know how i pulled hemostat.
It was because I was yelling it at you repeatedly for 15 seconds. Duh.
legendneverdies
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:52 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by legendneverdies »

xxaaaxx wrote:What was Alex talking about before FJ? 4 wins or 3 as a WC? QF + SF + come out ahead in the final = 3, unless I missed something? Even if I won the final, if I was 20k behind after day 1, I wouldn't really consider it 'winning 2 games'.
You don't have to have the most money in the first game or the second game to win the TofC. Day 1 could have the leader at 20K, you at 15K, and third place at 9K. If you get 15K on day two, the leader on day one gets 9K on day two and the person who got 9K gets 20K on day three, you win 30K to 29K to 29K. So the only game you'd have to win outright is the SF game, you just have to have the most money at the end of the second day of the final, and that doesn't necessarily mean being ahead at the end of both games of the final.
legendneverdies
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:52 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by legendneverdies »

Roadgeek Adam wrote:TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS - DAY 3
=================================
John Krizel (S26) / Tom Kunzen (S27) / Joon Pahk (S28)
================================================

Besides the fact that I got FJ wrong, Tom and John had win FJ responses, that was fun having champs from all 3 seasons facing each other, all I can say is, ummmm....
Is that the first time the three players in a QF TofC game came from three different seasons. It could have happened in the 2001, 2004, or 2007 TofCs(granted, no champions in the 2004 TofC could come from season 21)
KellyJ!
Contributor
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:22 am

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by KellyJ! »

legendneverdies wrote:
Roadgeek Adam wrote:TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS - DAY 3
=================================
John Krizel (S26) / Tom Kunzen (S27) / Joon Pahk (S28)
================================================

Besides the fact that I got FJ wrong, Tom and John had win FJ responses, that was fun having champs from all 3 seasons facing each other, all I can say is, ummmm....
Is that the first time the three players in a QF TofC game came from three different seasons. It could have happened in the 2001, 2004, or 2007 TofCs(granted, no champions in the 2004 TofC could come from season 21)
It couldn't have happened in 2001 either since the only champion form Season 18 who qualified (Mark Dawson) had to be held over due to an already filled field (along with Alan Bailey from the end of Season 17).
User avatar
econgator
Let's Go Mets!
Posts: 10673
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:32 am

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by econgator »

jgpeterson wrote:I bet "Algonquin Table" would get a specificity prompt. But maybe the judges would consider it as incomplete as King Arthur and the Knights of the Table!
As this was an FJ, there is no such thing, so I would have to outright neg it (as I would "Algonquins" -- although I'd accept "Round Tablers").
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by seaborgium »

legendneverdies wrote:
Roadgeek Adam wrote:TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS - DAY 3
=================================
John Krizel (S26) / Tom Kunzen (S27) / Joon Pahk (S28)
================================================

Besides the fact that I got FJ wrong, Tom and John had win FJ responses, that was fun having champs from all 3 seasons facing each other, all I can say is, ummmm....
Is that the first time the three players in a QF TofC game came from three different seasons. It could have happened in the 2001, 2004, or 2007 TofCs(granted, no champions in the 2004 TofC could come from season 21)
It didn't happen in the 2007 QFs (there were only two season 22 contestants, Celeste DiNucci and Craig Westphal, and they were placed in the same QF), but the third SF that tournament saw the match-up of Craig Westphal, Cliff Galiher, and Paul Glaser, from season 22, 23, and 24 respectively.

edit: a three-season QF match-up also happened in 2003, whose possibility you overlooked. Alan Bailey, who was held over from 2001 with Mark Dawson, won his five games in season 17 just before the summer 2001 hiatus; Eric Floyd won his games in June 2002, season 18; and Kyle Hale won the season 19 College Championship in November 2002.

edit again, weeks later: I overlooked another ToC with a holdover: my own! Joey Beachum, who became College Champion in season 24, played his QF against S25 champ Justin Bernbach and S26 champ Christine Valada.
Last edited by seaborgium on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
UniquePerspective
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by UniquePerspective »

MarkBarrett wrote:I don't have the stats handy, but I'm wondering about the sucess rate of the last TOC qualifier making the semis?
Let's find out at least as far as the archive has it updated.

Season 28 tournament last qualifier: Joon Pahk, in semi-finals
Season 26 tournament last qualifier: Regina Robbins, out in quarter-finals
Season 25 tournament last qualifier: Matt Kohlstedt, in semi-finals
Season 24 tournament last qualifier: Paul Glaser, in semi-finals
Season 22 tournament last qualifier: Doug Dorst, out in quarter-finals
Season 21 tournament last qualifier: Anne Boyd, in semi-finals
Season 19 tournament last qualifier: Brian Weikle, in semi-finals (and finals to boot)
Season 18 tournament last qualifier: Kevin Keach, out in quarter-finals
Season 16 tournament last qualifier: Mike Blumenfeld, in semi-finals
Season 15 tournament last qualifier: James Arey, out in quarter-finals
Season 14 tournament last qualifier: Bob Harris, in semi-finals (and finals to boot)

After season 13 the gaps start to get bigger in missing archived games, so I can't fairly add those, but in the 11 tournaments listed here, 7/11 of the last qualifiers made it. Might be interesting to figure out more clearly if we can definitively fill in the gaps.
User avatar
HugoZ
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by HugoZ »

alietr wrote:
jpahk wrote:i don't really know how i pulled hemostat.
It was because I was yelling it at you repeatedly for 15 seconds. Duh.
I must have heard you as well, since I started out down the path of "sangue-" (still smarting from the bloodworm incident the previous day), then ended up squeezing it out simutaneously with Joon, with an identical delivery.

As could be expected, I had an unfair advantage for FJ.

Probably not a bad sidestreet for prospies to look into would be the majors in the Algonquin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquin_Round_Table), as they do appear from time to time in clues.
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Friday, November 4, 2011 TOC Game Recap & Disc (SPOILERS

Post by seaborgium »

UniquePerspective wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote:I don't have the stats handy, but I'm wondering about the sucess rate of the last TOC qualifier making the semis?
Let's find out at least as far as the archive has it updated.

Season 28 tournament last qualifier: Joon Pahk, in semi-finals
Season 26 tournament last qualifier: Regina Robbins, out in quarter-finals
Season 25 tournament last qualifier: Matt Kohlstedt, in semi-finals
Season 24 tournament last qualifier: Paul Glaser, in semi-finals
Season 22 tournament last qualifier: Doug Dorst, out in quarter-finals
Season 21 tournament last qualifier: Anne Boyd, in semi-finals
Season 19 tournament last qualifier: Brian Weikle, in semi-finals (and finals to boot)
Season 18 tournament last qualifier: Kevin Keach, out in quarter-finals
Season 16 tournament last qualifier: Mike Blumenfeld, in semi-finals
Season 15 tournament last qualifier: James Arey, out in quarter-finals
Season 14 tournament last qualifier: Bob Harris, in semi-finals (and finals to boot)

After season 13 the gaps start to get bigger in missing archived games, so I can't fairly add those, but in the 11 tournaments listed here, 7/11 of the last qualifiers made it. Might be interesting to figure out more clearly if we can definitively fill in the gaps.
Well, given that before 1994 the ToC cutoff date was the end of the previous season, and that from 1989 to summer 1995 the Seniors Tournament ran at the end of seasons, we can conclude that the Senior champs were the last qualifiers from 1989 to 1993.

Season 10 tournament last qualifier: Marilyn Kneeland, in semi-finals (and finals to boot)
Season 9 tournament last qualifier: Leonard Schmidt, in semi-finals
Season 8 tournament last qualifier: Lou Pryor, in semi-finals (and finals to boot)
Season 7 tournament last qualifier: George Soule, out in quarter-finals
Season 6 tournament last qualifier: Ouida Rellstab, in semi-finals

edit: and it's been established that the last qualifier for the first ToC was Nathan Walpow, so...
Season 2 tournament last qualifier: Nathan Walpow, out in quarter-finals

I'm going to go ahead and add some J! Archive detective work here.
The last qualifier for the season 13 ToC whose games are archived is Bernie Cullen. However, both he and Lucien Schmit have "Season 13" on their player info pages (all other regular-game winners in the tournament are identified as season 12 champs). Since Bernie played in the season 13 premiere, Lucien must have been the last qualifier. He was eliminated in the QFs.

Linda Roberts is the last archived qualifier for the season 12 ToC. But Gordon Wean, Len Krisak, and Paul Thompson are also identified as season 12 champs, and Paul Thompson's UToC bio says he first appeared in October 1995, while Linda's games were in September. But I can't narrow it beyond the three above men. (Only Len did not make it out of the QFs.)

And in 1994, there were three champs who won games in season 11 (none of whom are archived): Steve Chernicoff, Tom Nichols, and Bill Pitassy. Steve was carried over from season 10, and Tom won his first four games earlier in season 10 and was brought back October 1994 because of apparently unfair circumstances under which he had lost his fifth game. Bill Pitassy first appeared in October 1994 (according to his UToC bio). Even if Tom's fifth game came after Bill's, I'd call Bill the last qualifier for the season 11 ToC, since Tom's four wins would have been enough to qualify him anyway. Bill made the semi-finals.

And I'm not even going to try to touch the 1986-88 ToCs.

edit again: I couldn't leave well enough alone. I checked them out anyway, and while I couldn't dig up much at all about 1986 and 1987, it turns out that Bruce Naegeli of ToC 1988 (season 5) earned a single-day total that got him listed in the Hall of Fame on the Jeopardy site in the '90s, complete with date and episode number, preserved for posterity at J! Archive. The reason I mention that is the date in question was July 20, 1988. Since that was the Wednesday before the end of the season, Bruce must have been the last qualifier for the season 5 ToC. (He made the finals and came in second.)
Last edited by seaborgium on Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
Post Reply