500 Questions (Season 2) [Spoilers after 5:00 p.m. PDT on game nights]

[econgator]

Of course, what the federal authorities choose to do about the producers' violation of the law could affect renewal as well.

?

[MitchO]

Not one of those baseball questions were actually about baseball.

[trainman]

Of course, what the federal authorities choose to do about the producers' violation of the law could affect renewal as well.

I assume you think they violated the law on quiz show rigging, 47 USC 509? Here's the text:

(a) Influencing, prearranging, or predetermining outcome

It shall be unlawful for any person, with intent to deceive the listening or viewing public—

(1) To supply to any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill any special and secret assistance whereby the outcome of such contest will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined.

(2) By means of persuasion, bribery, intimidation, or otherwise, to induce or cause any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill to refrain in any manner from using or displaying his knowledge or skill in such contest, whereby the outcome thereof will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined.

(3) To engage in any artifice or scheme for the purpose of prearranging or predetermining in whole or in part the outcome of a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance.

(4) To produce or participate in the production for broadcasting of, to broadcast or participate in the broadcasting of, to offer to a licensee for broadcasting, or to sponsor, any radio program, knowing or having reasonable ground for believing that, in connection with a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance constituting any part of such program, any person has done or is going to do any act or thing referred to in paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection.

(5) To conspire with any other person or persons to do any act or thing prohibited by paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (4) of this subsection, if one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of such conspiracy.

(b) “Contest” and “the listening or viewing public” defined

For the purposes of this section—

(1) The term “contest” means any contest broadcast by a radio station in connection with which any money or any other thing of value is offered as a prize or prizes to be paid or presented by the program sponsor or by any other person or persons, as announced in the course of the broadcast.

(2) The term “the listening or viewing public” means those members of the public who, with the aid of radio receiving sets, listen to or view programs broadcast by radio stations.

(c) Penalties

Whoever violates subsection (a) of this section shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

The fact that the producers replaced the carryover contestant with Ken Jennings didn't violate any of this.

[VoluptuousLoser]

Of course, what the federal authorities choose to do about the producers' violation of the law could affect renewal as well.

I assume you think they violated the law on quiz show rigging, 47 USC 509? Here's the text:

(a) Influencing, prearranging, or predetermining outcome

It shall be unlawful for any person, with intent to deceive the listening or viewing public—

(1) To supply to any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill any special and secret assistance whereby the outcome of such contest will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined.

(2) By means of persuasion, bribery, intimidation, or otherwise, to induce or cause any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill to refrain in any manner from using or displaying his knowledge or skill in such contest, whereby the outcome thereof will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined.

(3) To engage in any artifice or scheme for the purpose of prearranging or predetermining in whole or in part the outcome of a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance.

(4) To produce or participate in the production for broadcasting of, to broadcast or participate in the broadcasting of, to offer to a licensee for broadcasting, or to sponsor, any radio program, knowing or having reasonable ground for believing that, in connection with a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance constituting any part of such program, any person has done or is going to do any act or thing referred to in paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection.

(5) To conspire with any other person or persons to do any act or thing prohibited by paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (4) of this subsection, if one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of such conspiracy.

(b) “Contest” and “the listening or viewing public” defined

For the purposes of this section—

(1) The term “contest” means any contest broadcast by a radio station in connection with which any money or any other thing of value is offered as a prize or prizes to be paid or presented by the program sponsor or by any other person or persons, as announced in the course of the broadcast.

(2) The term “the listening or viewing public” means those members of the public who, with the aid of radio receiving sets, listen to or view programs broadcast by radio stations.

(c) Penalties

Whoever violates subsection (a) of this section shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

The fact that the producers replaced the carryover contestant with Ken Jennings didn't violate any of this.

Sure, they did. They intentionally deceived the viewing public, which was led to believe that the reigning genius would continue playing in season 2, by engaging in a scheme for the purpose of prearranging the outcome of a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge. The producers cannot lead the public to believe that a contest of intellectual knowledge is a bona fide contest with real stakes and then simply choose not to honor the outcome of that contest as if it didn't happen.

[alietr]

They intentionally deceived the viewing public, which was led to believe that the reigning genius would continue playing in season 2, ...

Out of curiosity, when did they say that? I certainly don't remember that ever being implied, implicitly or otherwise.

[Bamaman]

Do you think they should shut down Jeopardy! because the final champion on the Art Fleming version did not get to defend their title when the Trebek version debuted?

I suspect the number of people who tuned in to see Richard Mason was rather low.

[Rackme32]

Right off the bat they got something wrong. The called Ken Jeopardy's biggest winner. Isn't that Brad Rutter?

They also didn't bring back Richard Mason.

One more thing wrong and they're gone.

I haven't watched, did even know the show was on... But this host must be REALLY awful if he's worse than Mason...

I see I goofed... Nothing against Mason, the guy who was onstage when the game last year... I meant Richard Quest, the lame overdramatic host from last year.

[BigDaddyMatty]

There's no criminal case to be made here. OTOH, I could see Mason suing in civil court based on the claim that he had a reasonable expectation to continue as champion.

[alietr]

There's no criminal case to be made here. OTOH, I could see Mason suing in civil court based on the claim that he had a reasonable expectation to continue as champion.

I haven't seen whatever contract Mason signed, but I'd be about 99.99999% sure that the lawyers made sure that there was language in there saying that the contestant appears solely at the discretion of the producers. Don't get me wrong; I think it was a dick maneuver, but I'd be pretty sure he has no recourse.

[VoluptuousLoser]

There's no criminal case to be made here. OTOH, I could see Mason suing in civil court based on the claim that he had a reasonable expectation to continue as champion.

He has no civil claim. You cannot recover non-economic damages (e.g., pain and suffering) unless you have economic damages (e.g., money). He has no economic damages because there was no guarantee he would win anything even if he was allowed to continue to play. And, yes, the contract gives the producers wide latitude to make changes. It's arguably a contract of adhesion, and there is arguably no consideration received by one of the parties to the contract, but these are weak arguments.

With respect to the criminal liability of the producers under the U.S. Code, the appropriate authorities will determine whether to proceed.

Bamaman's Art Fleming/Alex Trebek analogy is clearly misplaced. There was a nine-year gap between the two series. There was no such gap here, and this was positioned as Season 2 of "500 Questions," not as a new series. The producers' behavior towards Richard Mason reflected this. He was given every reason to believe he would return for most of the period between Season 1 and Season 2. Things only changed when the producers learned from Ken Jennings that he would only be interested in playing if he were guaranteed a spot in the "hot seat." Moreover, a reasonable viewer who heard the words spoken by Richard Quest to Richard Mason after Mason took his seat as reigning genius at the end of Season 1 would have understood them to mean that Mason would receive the opportunity to play that he had rightfully earned. Viewers were encouraged to return for the next season to find out whether Mason (or anyone else) could answer 500 questions.

[bpmod]

Why would the length of the gap matter?

Brian

[VoluptuousLoser]

Why would the length of the gap matter?

Brian

No reasonable belief that one show was a continuation of the other, and no reasonable expectation that the last champion would resume playing nine years later when an entirely new production got underway.

By the way, does anyone even know if the winner of the final show of Fleming J! was eligible to return? For that matter, were any representations made to that winner that he or she would return if the show were renewed or revived? Because such representations were made here.

Whether you believe there is legal liability or not, do you actually support what was done here and how it was handled?

[dhkendall]

Just finished watching our tape for the season finale (and we watched our tape of Tuesday's show on Thursday, but since it was after Tuesday I avoided this thread then as well because spoilers), so here are some of my thoughts about the last two episodes, and the series overall:

I've complained a lot about the show on here (never about the trivia or the contestants, those are two huge reasons why I watched it again this season with eagerness) but I realized I didn't mention the one change this year I really liked: the addition of the lightning round. As you know, one of my biggest peeves is that there's more chat, less trivia, the lightning round is quick trivia, bang bang bang, like Jeopardy! I loved that format, and I perked up every time they had one.

That said, the next thing that I had on my list to discuss was another thing I didn't like and I don't think I brought it up before: when the contestant brainstorms answers, it sometimes takes at least a second for the correct "ding" to come up, which has got to be frustrating . For an example: "Name the 16th century Polish astronomer who proposed a heliocentric model of the solar system." "Copernicus! Uhh, Newton, Galileo, uhh. " *Ding!* my first thought is "What? Galileo is correct? Oh! I see, their ding person is asleep at the switch!"

Which leads me into the fact that I don't like the brainstorming answers part at all either. (And I still maintain that the question on Beethoven's symphony when the contestant went "9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd .. " in rapid succession might not be cheating per se, but it was definitely exploiting a loophole. (Of course I may just be saying that because I was yelling "Eroica!" at the screen right after the question was asked, so I may be a tad bitter on that one.)

Loved Muffy, I gave her the crown of this season's Megan "The Tickler" Barnes. She may have been less physical, but she was the most fun by far. (Second most fun was Claudia, but I was already familiar with her highly enjoyable wit through her J! appearances, especially on the BotD)

Last thing on my list I have written down as "Battle Call" - I was in utter awe how Guy could go: "Hmmm, I really need a Battle right now, let's try X." "It's a Battle!" After 8 or 9 times of going "How did he DO that?????" I just stopped saying anything and was convinced he was some kind of wizard or something. (His performance also bore that out.)

I don't think we'll ever see that show again. The format still sucks, and it is way too slow. Seeing the number of really good trivia players not even get a chance (or a dime) is frustrating.

Agreed. Get rid of the challenger -- who serves absolutely no purpose -- and tweak the format.

Getting rid of the challenger makes it more like the lightning round, which I have said above I'm definitely in favour of. Three wrong in the lightning round and the next contestant comes up.

I don't think we'll ever see that show again. The format still sucks, and it is way too slow. Seeing the number of really good trivia players not even get a chance (or a dime) is frustrating.

Agreed. Get rid of the challenger -- who serves absolutely no purpose -- and tweak the format.

No, no, no. Make the challenger integral to the game. Give them the chance at the bounceback, perhaps, and if they get enough of those they take over? Or make it one-on-one somehow.

I like this idea too of rebounds. Yes the challenger definitely needs to do more.

I really hope they bring Guy back. If they get renewed I think they would have a vested interest to. I'm sure they brought in Ken because most of America is "who's that?" for Richard Mason (which says a lot, but that's neither here or there right now), but here they have a natural angle, in that Guy has got to 241 (?) questions, since their whole schtick is "will ANYONE make it to 500 questions?" presenting this guy that's almost halfway there would make people tune in and say "hey! Finally! Someone might make it to 500 questions! Let's see what happens when they do!" Of course, if they reset Guy's question count back to 0 in season 3, then I'd say he got the same treatment as Mason (royally screwed).

Hope to see some more boardies and J! folk on if it's renewed!

[BigDaddyMatty]

He has no economic damages because there was no guarantee he would win anything even if he was allowed to continue to play.

I disagree. An opportunity to win money absolutely has economic value. Courts calculate damages in ambiguous cases all the time.

It's arguably a contract of adhesion, and there is arguably no consideration received by one of the parties to the contract, but these are weak arguments.

It's certainly a contract of adhesion, and that's important. Even if the contract gives the producers absolute discretion in casting and gameplay, a court could well enforce a basic expectation of fairness. The consideration argument is baseless, though. The contestant agreed to participate in the producers' for-profit television show in exchange for the opportunity to win money. There's clearly a benefit to each party.

[cf1140]

Jennings should be kicked out of the trivial hall of fame because of this. Do it, Tony!

[Bamaman]

I finally got through the entire season in a binge watch session yesterday thanks to the ABC site.

We still didn't get to see 500 questions. The final total was 467, compared to last season's 371. Even though the season was an hour shorter, they had more questions this time. This was due to the lightning round (not sure how many were lightning questions) and the time required to give an answer was reduced from ten to five seconds. so while Ken might have gotten to 500, it would have been pushing it, though some good editing might have gotten him there if he had gone on a roll.

I think we all agree that a trivia show which gives us more questions is a good thing. So this season was an improvement in that regard.

As for the host, Quest never bothered me as much as everyone else. I think he went a little overboard in his enthusiasm in running the game. Harris wasn't bad, but I didn't think he was a huge improvement. But he is already on ABC's payroll, so he'll likely be back for another season if it happens.

I think the changes they made this season were an improvement. Reducing the rounds from 50 to 30 and the addition of the lightning round helped move things along. I don't know if the questions were harder, but we had more champions this season (7 compared to 3 [not counting Mason]) despite the rounds being shorter.

Guy was quite impressive. He did seem to have a knack for picking where the battles might be. But with six per round, the majority of categories had one and certain categories lend themselves well to lists. I think six battles out of 30 questions was a bit much, I might lower that to five.

Like dhkendall, I was also annoyed by the answer approval person being asleep at the switch. I also didn't like how they didn't give all the unused answers after the battles. If the list was too long, the host would read a few of them and said "and the list goes on" and they'd quickly scroll past them. If asking the host to read a list of 20 items is too much, use shorter lists.

I do like the concept of the challenger but I wish they had more to do and that there was a way to get them more involved. Outside of the battles there is nothing they can do to stop them. Even in battles, if the champ keeps giving correct answers, they keep going. I don't want to see the challenger eliminated, but I really don't know what they can do.

I agree Mason got screwed in the deal and I think it was karma how Ken bombed out. (I do not think he took a dive). But I doubt Mason has any recourse here. They acted as if this was a totally new show. The host kept saying Guy was setting new records even before he passed what last season's players had reached. As someone else said, his contract probably does not guarantee him the right to come back.

I doubt they'd dump Guy because it would create a lot bigger controversy as he is in the middle of a run. I don't know if they'll bring it back. But the ratings were about the same as last year and it does seem like a pretty cheap show to produce so it likely will return. But if we have to wait another year, most people will have forgotten about it.

[OrangeSAM]

Guy was quite impressive. He did seem to have a knack for picking where the battles might be.

Agreed, although when he thought there would be no battle in "Symbols" category I turned to Mrs. OS and told her what the battle would be.

[dhkendall]

Guy was quite impressive. He did seem to have a knack for picking where the battles might be.

Agreed, although when he thought there would be no battle in "Symbols" category I turned to Mrs. OS and told her what the battle would be.

I don't know if this was the one I was thinking of (his last one I believe) but I knew the last battle would be in Mayors and it'd be listing New York mayors.

But the the score is dhkendall 1, Guy Jordan 823 for precalling battle categories so I'm not gloating too much.

[Bamaman]

And while I liked seeing familiar faces, I wish they'd use something besides the j-archive for a contestant search.

[dhkendall]

And while I liked seeing familiar faces, I wish they'd use something besides the j-archive for a contestant search.

AFAIK, their casting is just like everyone else's in that you apply to them, not that they come to you.