Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Glassysquid
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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Glassysquid »

seaborgium wrote:I was prepared to make fun of the marine biology student for missing the sunfish clue, but on second (well, technically third) viewing, I have decided Alex's delivery was misleading. Should have been read "not starfish but THIS heavenly fish," but Alex said "not starfish but this HEAVENLY fish," which steered me wrong in the studio, as I recall.
I am going to get SO MUCH CRAP tomorrow in my ichthyology class for not getting it. SO. MUCH. CRAP.
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Fish/squid enthusiast and Ph. D student at the University of Rhode Island.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

seaborgium wrote:I was prepared to make fun of the marine biology student for missing the sunfish clue, but on second (well, technically third) viewing, I have decided Alex's delivery was misleading. Should have been read "not starfish but THIS heavenly fish," but Alex said "not starfish but this HEAVENLY fish," which steered me wrong in the studio, as I recall.
I noticed the same thing here on the couch. I went for "sunfish" anyway, but was uncertain because of that word "heavenly". If Alex had read it with the delivery you suggest, I wouldn't have been uncertain.

What really stung (vicariously on Erin's behalf) was when Paul guessed correctly and Alex explained "Sunfish! Not a starfish" to make the connection. As though anyone listening should made that connection rather than the connection between "heavenly" and "angel".

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

iowabelle wrote: And of course, when Corgis came up, I knew there had to be an Elizabeth II question.
That was another one of the clues that I'm guessing Paul most wishes he could have another shot at, in addition to "Cereal Serial" and forgetting the goalie in a hockey power play. When I first saw the picture of Elizabeth, I immediately thought it was Eleanor Roosevelt, but then quickly realized that 1940 was in the clue, and this was clearly a child, so Elizabeth II was the only logical choice. Paul said "Who is Roosevelt", and I was wondering if he meant Franklin or Eleanor, since I believe the clue did include something like "future world leader".

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jpahk
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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jpahk »

opusthepenguin wrote:Have we got any college physics teachers from Somerville who can give us a ruling?
i guess i'm late to answer the bat call, but boson has it right. the clue had me thinking resonance the whole time, until finally she said "the pitch is due to this, the # of cycles per second." okay, that's frequency, period end of story. resonance is the phenomenon; frequency is the quantity. the clue unambiguously asked for the quantity. it is okay to say that a particular resonance has a certain frequency, but i think a statement like "The Schuman Resonance is 7.8 cycles per second" is incorrect. the frequency of that resonance is 7.8 cycles per second.

having said all that... yeah, bad clue and definitely neg bait. why spend all that time hinting at resonance? the frequency of anything is # of cycles per second, not just a resonant oscillation. if you are going to go out of your way to rub a wineglass for 5 seconds in the category "9-letter words", the answer should be resonance.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jpahk »

oh, and did i forget to mention? congrats to buddy on a great game and a commanding win, and to erin on a strong showing and a WC lock, and to paul for a hard-fought (and not-dead-yet) contest!

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

A much better clue would have been "If a person were to go around murdering iconic figures like Cap'n Crunch, Tony the Tiger, Crackle, and Pop, the police might identify them as this type of killer." That would be a serial cereal killer, of course. :D (Apparently, despite having top billing for decades, Snap finally snapped.)

Also, I'm still waiting for someone to tell us which pair of words in the homohones category are not actually homophones. I'm guessing it will be fowl and foul, as I'm sure there is some way to pronounce those words differently.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by pkursk »

Checking in! Here to take my thoroughly deserved lashing head-on. First off, huge congrats to Buddy & Erin. A convincing and well-earned win by Buddy and very nice game by Erin. I was really frustrated with my performance -- I can bear losing but don't feel I acquitted myself well. But even had I had a better game I don't know that it would have been enough. Buddy was a beast on the buzzer.

As for a couple of the real killers...yeah. Animal House. I was 95% and I clammed because I was worried about losing the little money I had left. Say Anything was just a dumb slip on my part. I have a real soft spot for Better Off Dead (seriously...the Howard Cosell racing bit? Still kills me.) the fact that Cusack plays a character with an "L" name in that movie, too, got it stuck in my head. In fact I think I've seen that one more than Say Anything, which is uncommon for an 80s child. Resonance...honestly, I'd forgotten about that one until I watched the game tonight. Perhaps I could've had a case to argue but I'll let Joon decide!

Have to say amen to all the contestants who've remarked on the camaraderie among the field this year. This group is not just really bright and possessed of great gameplaying skill, but are kind, supportive, fun, and funny. I'm proud to call them friends. Can't wait for the tourney to continue. Feel free to ask any specific questions...I'll do my best to answer!

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katiedidwhat
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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by katiedidwhat »

I had a category called "Homonym Fill-Ins" in this game which isn't exactly the same, but close. I got away with just giving one of the pairs for all of the clues except the last one. I gave just "gnu" but Trebek paused and so I gave the other two. So it isn't even necessarily consistent within a category.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 »

WTG Buddy and Erin! I was semi-spoiled on the result of this game; before I had the chance to watch it, I got an email from the Facebook group "Watch Erin on Jeopardy's Tournament of Champions!" The email informed me that the name of the group had been changed to "Watch Erin on Jeopardy's Tournament of Champions! (Again)"; and that the date of the event had been changed to Wednesday, November 9. So I knew going in that Erin was going to advance in some fashion. That didn't make the episode any less enjoyable to watch, however.

Acknowledging that some here missed it, I found tonight's FJ to be the easiest of this TOC so far. I just started going through Greek instruments in my head: Lute? No. Lyre? Hey, that sounds like "lyrics"! Done, in about 2 seconds. You didn't need to know any etymology really, to solve this one; you just had to know what instrument Orpheus was famous for playing, etc.

If this had been the FJ on Thursday, Roger would have ended up with $60,000.

In the corgi category, I thought it was incorrect to refer to the young QEII as a "future world leader." The British monarch is a ceremonial head of state, not really a world leader. That latter title is the province of David Cameron.

I fell for the angelfish neg (should that be one of the weekly poll questions? I know it's early).

I was saddened to see both "Animal House" and "Say Anything" become stand-and-stares.

I never heard of the "Declaration of Dependence" before. Now THAT is a TOC-level clue . . .
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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by barandall800 »

MarkBarrett wrote:I'll share how I missed the FJ clue. First I tried refrain for a part of a song. An instrument? I have nothing. Chorus? Let's find an instrument. Sounds like chord. I wrote clavichord. Greek roots? I didn't know, but it was the best I could do.

Lyrics to lyre? I could have made the leap to the instrument with no problem. It was getting to the first part that I have no idea how long it would have taken. Very nice triple solve by the players.
Pretty my thoughts exactly, though I went with "harpsichord" instead. I knew choruses are part of instrumentals (as far as I know), so it didn't quite fit the clue, but I was stuck on that, it sounded like it came from the Greek, and in desperation that was all I had to go with. Way for me, the music enthusiast, to miss a music-themed clue... :cry:

I'd never heard of the "Declaration of Dependence" either, but I made a semi-WAG on it and it paid off. I think I was almost saying it as a joke at first, but then realized it actually made sense. :)

That Poetry category was full of responses I had, but didn't pull the trigger on. Sigh...

Congrats, Erin, for locking up a wildcard spot! I was rooting for you to do well. And props to Buddy on a decisive win. Paul, this just wasn't your day, but you gave a gallant effort.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OrangeSAM »

MarkBarrett wrote:Paul's buzzer may not have been friendly, but all the bullet holes in his feet hurt him also. He deserves a check into the boards for blurting out the wrong number for the hockey penalty kill. ...
FWIW, I did the same thing on the hockey clue. I've gotten used to the radio and TV commentators' standard practice of counting skaters only to describe the on-ice situation.
Krypton and Animal House were the yell-at-homes tonight. One worked.
We were a duet on both of those, though I suspect there was a veritable JBoardie chorus for them.
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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Fishercat »

That hockey clue was tricky. I said four before I backtracked and said five. It was begging for the answer of four even if it wasn't right.

They really needed some more obscure sports in that category though, at least for the ToC. But I'm not complaining.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

katiedidwhat wrote:I had a category called "Homonym Fill-Ins" in this game which isn't exactly the same, but close. I got away with just giving one of the pairs for all of the clues except the last one. I gave just "gnu" but Trebek paused and so I gave the other two. So it isn't even necessarily consistent within a category.
Speaking of that category, shouldn't that have been titled "Homophone Fill-Ins", since the clues were referring to words that were spelled differently, but (at least in theory) pronounced the same. Wikipedia says "In non-technical contexts, the term "homonym" may be used (somewhat confusingly) to refer to words that are either homographs or homophones", but why would they not have used "homophone" in the title of that category, even if there is an argument to be made that homphones are a subset of homonyms. Correct responses in the category were: waste/waist, loot/lute, prints/prince, waiver/waver, and new/gnu/knew.

Is this a well-known thing that Jeopardy! often confusingly uses words like homophone, homonym, or homograph? I don't recall ever seeing it mentioned before, either here or at the old board.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

My FJ get for this game started with an inability to parse the clue. Then I zeroed in on the last word of the clue (helped by the "this" pointer) and the last word of the category. Instrument + Greek = lyre, and once I had that, the rest of the clue was a cinch to understand and an instant confirmation that I had the correct response.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

pkursk wrote:Checking in! Here to take my thoroughly deserved lashing head-on. First off, huge congrats to Buddy & Erin. A convincing and well-earned win by Buddy and very nice game by Erin. I was really frustrated with my performance -- I can bear losing but don't feel I acquitted myself well. But even had I had a better game I don't know that it would have been enough. Buddy was a beast on the buzzer.
I was frustrated with you, as my earlier post indicated. I guess we have our ruling from the local judges that "resonance" can't be made to fit. It was just very attractive negbait in a clue that took a hard swerve at the end. Oh well. Just not your day, unfortunately.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Glassysquid wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I was prepared to make fun of the marine biology student for missing the sunfish clue, but on second (well, technically third) viewing, I have decided Alex's delivery was misleading. Should have been read "not starfish but THIS heavenly fish," but Alex said "not starfish but this HEAVENLY fish," which steered me wrong in the studio, as I recall.
I am going to get SO MUCH CRAP tomorrow in my ichthyology class for not getting it. SO. MUCH. CRAP.
And you'll love every minute of it. :D

You did a great job up there. I was biting my nails for you when you came out with that "what is a kilometer?" neg near the beginning. (Were you yelling at the TV when the game got to that point last night?) But you didn't get flustered. You bounced right back, got on the positive dollar side, and just kept going. Well done!

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

billy pilgrim wrote:I've never seen them require a ressponse of saying the homophone twice. It seems both dumb and unfair- Alex needed to tell the players if they are departing from SOP.
It's happened a few times, according to the archives. Search for "Homophonic" and you'll get "Homophonic Pairs" in 1987,1996, 1997, 2000, 2002, and 2009; "Homophonic Duos" in 2005; and "The Homophonics Game" in 2008. Those all wanted the dual response.

Other categories with "Homophonic" in the title, as well as the oft-used "Homophones" category, have wanted the single response.

I think an argument can be made that it is possible to tell from the clue whether a single word or a two-word phrase is required in response. The ones that require single words tend to use the word "or": i.e. it's A or B. (And if the contestant responds "What is clue or clew?", Alex explains that they only need to say the word once.) The ones requiring a phrase use the one meaning to modify or qualify the other in some way: E.g. "A Siamese dead heat" is a Thai tie.

But those are statements I can make after doing some research, and even then the statements are tentative. It doesn't seem fair to require the knowledge going in.

Here's a semi-smoking gun that proves our point. Date: 30 May 2008. Category: The Homophonics Game. First clue uncovered: "A howitzer that fires a list of all the saints acknowledged by the Church." Here's what happens.

Alison: What is cannon? Or a...
Alex: [looking at the judges] We need both words.
Alison: Oh. What is a canon cannon?
Alex: Thank you, yes. Even though they're pronounced the same, we need both words. They're usually spelled differently.

I think Paul should have been extended a similar courtesy. Or better yet, they should have noted the need to pre-explain the category should they use it again. Now, granted, a couple of things were different this time around. 1) It was a TOC. That could translate to less latitude and higher expectations. 2) Paul blanched under Alex's icy stare and added a word that made his response incorrect. Whether Alex might have offered some assistance if Paul had waited, I don't know. It seemed to me that he was silent for quite some time before he added the extra word. I imagine Paul can confirm for us that the period of silence was somewhere around an hour and a half, give or take.

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by shubhaghosh »

"Watching it now. Buddy's whispering of noble gases on the DD was a detail I missed in the studio!"

What other noble gas begins with the letter K?

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hanzz »

Not much else to add beyond what's already been said. Congrats first and foremost to my Esprit de Corps sister Erin!! Having a cheering section spread out over 15 universities must account for some sort of good mojo, right?? Paul, I feel for you man. I will never, ever, ever be in a position where I can criticize a contestant bombing out, so know that you have my sympthathy; nothing like knowing you've gotten the hang of this before only for the buzzer to turn into your worst enemy! And congrats of course to Buddy on a solidly well-played game. Great tournament so far!

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Re: Monday, November 7, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

shubhaghosh wrote:"Watching it now. Buddy's whispering of noble gases on the DD was a detail I missed in the studio!"

What other noble gas begins with the letter K?
Have you ever been faced with a "Which X is..." question, and listed Xs in your mind until you found the one that fit the question?

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