Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

I had the pleasure of watching this stunning exhibition with 3 TOCers and 1 champion (and one friend thereof). 4 of the 5 of us got FJ (and the fifth talked himself out of Labor), but none of us could particularly articulate how we ended up there so quickly. We also all agreed those were some pretty easy boards, surprisingly so. They must have something nasty planned for tomorrow night.

And yes, we are all awed by Roger the Rocket.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by markrunsvold »

BigDaddyJ wrote:Wow. Not much else to say that hasn't been said already. I went into the game rooting for Roger (as a fellow computer scientist), but by the end I was feeling a little bad for Tom and Buddy who were desperately trying to ring in while Roger was running away with the game. Alex was a little slow on the uptake in realizing that Roger was teasing him about the one-day record.
Alex thought the record was still KenJen's and was asking the producers' table for confirmation during the break. Pretty amusing when he learned the truth.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Wow. What a game. That's all I can say.

On the FJ - I was vaccillating on HHS vs. Labor. Did think briefly about State, since three of the last four were women, but realized none were women before (at least in my lifetime).

However, since HHS had been in other incarnations (HEW only came into being in the Kennedy years, I think, then got broken into HHS when Ed got split off under Carter), I didn't think there were enough to have seven HHS secretaries in total, much less seven females. Went with Labor because of Francis Perkins, figured they had enough time to get a few more women into the slot. Was one of the easier FJs (for me) in this tournament.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by goforthetie »

markrunsvold wrote:
BigDaddyJ wrote:Wow. Not much else to say that hasn't been said already. I went into the game rooting for Roger (as a fellow computer scientist), but by the end I was feeling a little bad for Tom and Buddy who were desperately trying to ring in while Roger was running away with the game. Alex was a little slow on the uptake in realizing that Roger was teasing him about the one-day record.
Alex thought the record was still KenJen's and was asking the producers' table for confirmation during the break. Pretty amusing when he learned the truth.
I recall him making that same mistake - claiming that the one-day record was KJ's - relatively recently, maybe on one of Joon's games where he had a massive total due to a late TDD, and being reminded of Roger's feat during commercial - am I hallucinating?

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by boson »

Wow!

Empirical proof that daily double hunting works, both from tonight's show and Friday's. Of course, you have to get the clues right, and Roger is money. A lot of money. Tom and Buddy are in tough, and I really hope that they do all they can to get back into it. A comeback from this score would be unlikely, but doable if they get on a roll, get some luck and use Roger's techniques.

Other players have been good at wagering and managing the board (for instance Stefan Goodreau and Dan Pawson, fairly recently), but Roger has kicked it up a notch. I hope potential contestants watching learn from this, but I doubt the majority will.

I guessed HHS for cabinet department :oops: . This is probably my most dreaded FJ category, a very low bubble on Roger's graph, and the prospect of studying cabinet members to learn the stuff is rather horrifying. Let's just hope the bubble evaporates.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by billy pilgrim »

markrunsvold wrote:
BigDaddyJ wrote:Wow. Not much else to say that hasn't been said already. I went into the game rooting for Roger (as a fellow computer scientist), but by the end I was feeling a little bad for Tom and Buddy who were desperately trying to ring in while Roger was running away with the game. Alex was a little slow on the uptake in realizing that Roger was teasing him about the one-day record.
Alex thought the record was still KenJen's and was asking the producers' table for confirmation during the break. Pretty amusing when he learned the truth.
I thought Roger's question was a little dig at Alex about the recent show where alex referred to the "Ken Jennings single day record score" and then as i recall corrected himself the next show. I thought that was pretty funny. It became hilarious when we learned after the break that Alex still didn't know that Roger already had the record.
She caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by bengland »

It's like when Fosbury rewrote the rules in Mexico City!

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mam418 »

legendneverdies wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Seriously. A ToC player worth his or her salt should get Anne solely off Agnes Grey .
Of all the archived games, only once did someone have to ID the author of Agnes Grey without any other clues, on Feb 20, 2001 in a $500 Women Writers clue in a regular game, and a woman IDed it. The work has been mentioned eight or nine times total, and the earliest reference was the game I cited.
Nah, I agree with Stefan... if you know much about the Bronte sisters at all, you know that Anne wrote Agnes Grey. Not hard, I don't think. This is the ToC. Make the players work a bit for it... :twisted:

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by dhkendall »

Roger definitely lived up to expectations, and his play was a good advertisement for his study method as well! Just like another computer guy who got rich after his Jeopardy! appearances, you can get rich by selling your study system, Roger!

(I'm assuming you were confident enough in each category to go TDD on it, based on your study method, which is why you did it. And, despite your comments, I somehow doubt you're doing it "just to set a record", though it's always nice when you do. :) )

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by rjohnson »

Buddy-

This is the defending champ that you beat on your first day on the show. I've been hoping that you would make the tournament (always good to be beat by a strong player) and my wife and I've been cheering you on so far. Awesome that you made the finals, now I get some bragging rights! Good luck for tomorrow.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

legendneverdies wrote:
seaborgium wrote: (like the extra hints in the Laffer and Pavlov clues on Thursday).
I'd bet that Pavlov clue was a replacement clue like the pectin one from the third SF game was.
I went to the taping, and I don't recall any snafus requiring clue replacement in that category. I have a vague memory of someone in the semis jumping to the bottom of a DJ category by saying, "_____ for 2," and Alex thought J! $200 and started reading the top clue before TPTB stopped him. And although the Two V's category did have the bottom revealed before the top, that sort of occurrence would have required the replacement of the $400 clue, not the $2,000. (Complicating the matter is the fact that I remember Alex chiding Justin for just saying "two," but all the categories were taken in top-down order that game.)

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JoshuaRQI »

goforthetie wrote:
markrunsvold wrote:
BigDaddyJ wrote:Wow. Not much else to say that hasn't been said already. I went into the game rooting for Roger (as a fellow computer scientist), but by the end I was feeling a little bad for Tom and Buddy who were desperately trying to ring in while Roger was running away with the game. Alex was a little slow on the uptake in realizing that Roger was teasing him about the one-day record.
Alex thought the record was still KenJen's and was asking the producers' table for confirmation during the break. Pretty amusing when he learned the truth.
I recall him making that same mistake - claiming that the one-day record was KJ's - relatively recently, maybe on one of Joon's games where he had a massive total due to a late TDD, and being reminded of Roger's feat during commercial - am I hallucinating?
Yeah, it was one of Joon's games. Alex must live in a Ken Jennings dreamland. Poor Roger Craig. What's a man to do to get Alex to remember him? I was thinking breaking the record again, but I suppose it's enough to have $50,000. :P

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by heelsrule1988 »

I am speechless, other than a line that any Bears fans here will appreciate:

Roger Craig... YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!!!

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cinemaniax7 »

boson wrote:Empirical proof that daily double hunting works, both from tonight's show and Friday's. Of course, you have to get the clues right, and Roger is money.
Sorry, you take Roger and his gasp-inducing wagers out of the equation, and I couldn't disagree with you more. Roger's approach to wagering in this game is the exception that proves the rule. So many players, even two- and three-time champs, have demonstrated time and again that DD hunting is a waste of time unless you have a huge lead or are willing to bet big in the category in question. If you go hunting for a DD and find it under the $1600 clue and then wager just $1600 or even $2000, as so many seem to do, what's the point?

Also, there's often the unknown of just what the category is really about—you can't always tell from the name of the category. Roger's all-in bet in the Languages category was incredibly risky. As it turned out, the clue was not especially difficult, but the one revealed immediately afterward proved to be a triple-stumper, if I recall correctly.

Finally, it's the rare contestant—e.g., Chuck, Ken, and Roger—who is able to jump around categories without disrupting his or her own game rhythm.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

cinemaniax7 wrote:Also, there's often the unknown of just what the category is really about—you can't always tell from the name of the category. Roger's all-in bet in the Languages category was incredibly risky. As it turned out, the clue was not especially difficult, but the one revealed immediately afterward proved to be a triple-stumper, if I recall correctly.
Roger ran the category.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

I thought the writers slipped in a regular game when I went 25/30 in the J! round. It was back to reality in the DJ round with 14 correct. But, I knew all the DDs and also solved FJ, so I'll take it.

Roger's moves in the 60 clues did not surprise me as Tom and Buddy were in contention, he bet huge on the DDs and worked the buzzer well. It was the 61st clue when Roger bet low that I did not anticipate that move. To me the situation was set up to go for about 20,000. Of course it's a 2-day final and nothing says you have to win it in one.

With three guys like this playing I'll pick up any trash I can even when it really is trash as in 2.5 Men and Up All Night.

For the FJ clue my first thought was no way on State. Next I thought of women in the cabinet. Elizabeth Dole was first name to hit me. Labor? Yeah, Labor. Any others? FDR/Perkins. Since that was 1930s that left plenty of room for 5 others. It was my guess without knowing it was a lock. In a TD game I would have perhaps recalled a third name to choose from on the list.

I'm not convinced Tom has any chance to even get a sniff at overcoming 31,200 in one more day. Let's say Roger is off his game and finds no DDs and only scores 12,400 (His Coryat from Friday). That's 62,400 in the bank. Tom would need 44,000 or so to overcome that. That's doubling 22,000 in FJ while also needing Roger to miss FJ. All possible, but too much has to go right for that to happen.

Buddy would have to have even more go Wright for him to make up a 44,000 deficit. Roger doesn't have to do anything crazy tomorrow other than ignore the scoreboard and play his game. Forget trying to monitor the scores and calculating the tourney lock clue by clue.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by aggiebud »

seaborgium wrote:
cinemaniax7 wrote:Also, there's often the unknown of just what the category is really about—you can't always tell from the name of the category. Roger's all-in bet in the Languages category was incredibly risky. As it turned out, the clue was not especially difficult, but the one revealed immediately afterward proved to be a triple-stumper, if I recall correctly.
Roger ran the category.

I don't think so - Tom got the top clue with New Guinea...

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

aggiebud wrote:I don't think so - Tom got the top clue with New Guinea...
Silly me; I only rewatched the $2,000 clue to verify my claim.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by boson »

cinemaniax7 wrote:
boson wrote:Empirical proof that daily double hunting works, both from tonight's show and Friday's. Of course, you have to get the clues right, and Roger is money.
Sorry, you take Roger and his gasp-inducing wagers out of the equation, and I couldn't disagree with you more. Roger's approach to wagering in this game is the exception that proves the rule. So many players, even two- and three-time champs, have demonstrated time and again that DD hunting is a waste of time unless you have a huge lead or are willing to bet big in the category in question. If you go hunting for a DD and find it under the $1600 clue and then wager just $1600 or even $2000, as so many seem to do, what's the point?

Also, there's often the unknown of just what the category is really about—you can't always tell from the name of the category. Roger's all-in bet in the Languages category was incredibly risky. As it turned out, the clue was not especially difficult, but the one revealed immediately afterward proved to be a triple-stumper, if I recall correctly.

Finally, it's the rare contestant—e.g., Chuck, Ken, and Roger—who is able to jump around categories without disrupting his or her own game rhythm.
Ok, I'll back off from my claim of "empirical proof". I would argue, though, that if Buddy or Tom or Joon or Mark did the daily double hunting (and big wagers) that Roger did, we might be seeing a very different picture right now.

I still think DD hunting works even if you don't have the confidence/knowledge to wager huge and get it. If you get a daily double and bet small you are still preventing your opponents from getting the clue and betting big. True, this isn't as big an advantage, but in some situations is almost as important.

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Re: Monday, November 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JoshuaRQI »

boson wrote:
cinemaniax7 wrote:
boson wrote:Empirical proof that daily double hunting works, both from tonight's show and Friday's. Of course, you have to get the clues right, and Roger is money.
Sorry, you take Roger and his gasp-inducing wagers out of the equation, and I couldn't disagree with you more. Roger's approach to wagering in this game is the exception that proves the rule. So many players, even two- and three-time champs, have demonstrated time and again that DD hunting is a waste of time unless you have a huge lead or are willing to bet big in the category in question. If you go hunting for a DD and find it under the $1600 clue and then wager just $1600 or even $2000, as so many seem to do, what's the point?

Also, there's often the unknown of just what the category is really about—you can't always tell from the name of the category. Roger's all-in bet in the Languages category was incredibly risky. As it turned out, the clue was not especially difficult, but the one revealed immediately afterward proved to be a triple-stumper, if I recall correctly.

Finally, it's the rare contestant—e.g., Chuck, Ken, and Roger—who is able to jump around categories without disrupting his or her own game rhythm.
Ok, I'll back off from my claim of "empirical proof". I would argue, though, that if Buddy or Tom or Joon or Mark did the daily double hunting (and big wagers) that Roger did, we might be seeing a very different picture right now.

I still think DD hunting works even if you don't have the confidence/knowledge to wager huge and get it. If you get a daily double and bet small you are still preventing your opponents from getting the clue and betting big. True, this isn't as big an advantage, but in some situations is almost as important.
Agreed, I think hunting is important even if you have no intention of betting more than $100 because you prevent opponents from making important wagers that could decide the game.

Side note: I thought Buddy made a pretty good wager in this game, though I'm not sure everyone would agree. If I'm Buddy, I figure there's a decent chance Roger goes for a new record and bets big in FJ. I am pretty sure Tom is going to try to double up. So I can hope for a triple stumper and be right in there, or if I'm lucky I get it right and am sitting very pretty for day two, and my opponents miss it. If I bet it all and win, I'm still very far behind. All in all, I thought there was plenty of rationale for his wager.

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