Wednesday, October 4, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

[opusthepenguin]

Clarification on the sherbert ruling here:

https://www.jeopardy.com/jbuzz/features ... vs-sherbet

Dictionary entries bear them out on the claim that sherbert is not only a different pronunciation but is attached to a different spelling. That was news to me and Mrs Penguin. We assumed and continue to believe that people who PRONOUNCE it sherbert would still SPELL it sherbet, thus making Austin's response correct. EXAMPLE: man in frozen treats aisle holds up a carton labeled "sherbet" and says to his wife, "Hey, should we get some sherbert?" Ask that guy if the carton has a misspelling on it. He'll say, "Nah, that's how you spell sherbert. Don't you know anything?"

[opusthepenguin]

Just to be clear, Austin Rogers is not Austin Powers. Austin Powers would beat him like a drum.

It amuses me to picture our Austin Powers acting as Austin Rogers has been.

Me too. Seeing him behave with that amount of humility would be quite something.

[KellyLasiter]

Clarification on the sherbert ruling here:

https://www.jeopardy.com/jbuzz/features ... vs-sherbet

Dictionary entries bear them out on the claim that sherbert is not only a different pronunciation but is attached to a different spelling. That was news to me and Mrs Penguin. We assumed and continue to believe that people who PRONOUNCE it sherbert would still SPELL it sherbet, thus making Austin's response correct. EXAMPLE: man in frozen treats aisle holds up a carton labeled "sherbet" and says to his wife, "Hey, should we get some sherbert?" Ask that guy if the carton has a misspelling on it. He'll say, "Nah, that's how you spell sherbert. Don't you know anything?"

Yeah, I didn't know it was an accepted alternate spelling either! Lots of people where I live say "sherbert," but the containers always say "sherbet," and while there's a mom-n-pop ice cream place here in town that advertises "sherbert" on their sign, I always figured they'd just made a spelling mistake on their sign!

[opusthepenguin]

This may be my claim to fame for the season: I have now gotten one FJ right that Austin Powers, uh, Rogers, missed. Other than that this was a miserable game for me, so props to the contestants for doing as well as they did, even if it was sub-par for the champ.

Hey, I just realized that means I'm now tied with Austin on his FJs. I've gotten 5 out of 6 of them, just like him.

[Bamaman]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

[alietr]

This may be my claim to fame for the season: I have now gotten one FJ right that Austin Powers, uh, Rogers, missed. Other than that this was a miserable game for me, so props to the contestants for doing as well as they did, even if it was sub-par for the champ.

Hey, I just realized that means I'm now tied with Austin on his FJs. I've gotten 5 out of 6 of them, just like him.

Such a smart penguin! Is that sherbert in your cone?

[opusthepenguin]

I certainly wasn't expecting them to ask a contestant to take a derivative or integral (though it might have been reasonable to ask someone to take the derivative of a polynomial with only a few terms or maybe even integrate e^x as the bottom clue).

Especially since they're sloppy on their math and accept partially correct answers. E.g. when they asked contestants to solve for x in the equation x^2 = 144, they accepted the response "What is 12?" I would've dearly loved to see an uncomfortable pause while Alex waited for the rest of the correct response and finally said, "No." Similarly, in the clue you propose, I'd love to see that uncomfortable pause followed by "...plus a constant. Sorry."

[DadofTwins]

A few thoughts on #SherbetGate2017.

1. Yes, I have way too much time on my hands these days (as you'll see in a minute).

2. Regional dialects are, and have always been, acceptable, except when a response is written.

3. The only way Jeopardy finds the image they end up using is by searching Getty Images for "Orange SherbeRt." Behold:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo ... N_Redirect

This is the second image that pops up when you search for "orange sherbeRt."

I looked for the image under "orange sherbet" (no R), and it wasn't there. At all.

So either "sherbert" is acceptable, or there is no correct response that fits all three elements (image, wording, spelling) of the clue.

4. Did I mention that I have way too much time on my hands these days?

[opusthepenguin]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

[This Is Kirk!]

So either "sherbert" is acceptable, or there is no correct response that fits all three elements (image, wording, spelling) of the clue.

Come on, now. The image name or how it's tagged is hardly definitive proof. I'd be willing to bet the package the product in that image came from was labeled "orange sherbet."

[Bamaman]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

This was literally the first time in my life I have ever written the word.

[econgator]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

I would spell it with the second 'r'. I never knew it wasn't supposed to be there.

[acthomas]

A few thoughts on #SherbetGate2017.

1. Yes, I have way too much time on my hands these days (as you'll see in a minute).

2. Regional dialects are, and have always been, acceptable, except when a response is written.

3. The only way Jeopardy finds the image they end up using is by searching Getty Images for "Orange SherbeRt." Behold:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo ... N_Redirect

This is the second image that pops up when you search for "orange sherbeRt."

I looked for the image under "orange sherbet" (no R), and it wasn't there. At all.

So either "sherbert" is acceptable, or there is no correct response that fits all three elements (image, wording, spelling) of the clue.

4. Did I mention that I have way too much time on my hands these days?

I admit, I was willing to take the party line on this one, but the image point is pretty conclusive.

[opusthepenguin]

3. The only way Jeopardy finds the image they end up using is by searching Getty Images for "Orange SherbeRt." Behold:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo ... N_Redirect

This is the second image that pops up when you search for "orange sherbeRt."

I looked for the image under "orange sherbet" (no R), and it wasn't there. At all.

Hmmm. I was about to congratulate you on this catch. But when I search Getty Images for "orange sherbet" (including the quotation marks), the image in question pops up as the 9th one on the first page of results. Try it again now and see if your results have changed. I'm wondering if Getty's search engine is optimizing as we run these searches and zero in on that image.

[opusthepenguin]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

This was literally the first time in my life I have ever written the word.

Interesting. In my case, that would be irrelevant. I (almost) always know how I would spell any word I use, even if I never have cause to spell it. Mrs P is the same way. That's just how we relate to words cognitively. For us, if someone introduces herself as "Kathy," we immediately need to know--C or K at the start? Y or IE at the end? Without that information, we feel we haven't really learned the name and don't have a clear mental picture of it.

Informal poll: How many of you know exactly what I'm talking about? How many just shook your head and chalked this up as another penguin peculiarity?

[KellyLasiter]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

This was literally the first time in my life I have ever written the word.

Interesting. In my case, that would be irrelevant. I (almost) always know how I would spell any word I use, even if I never have cause to spell it. Mrs P is the same way. That's just how we relate to words cognitively. For us, if someone introduces herself as "Kathy," we immediately need to know--C or K at the start? Y or IE at the end? Without that information, we feel we haven't really learned the name and don't have a clear mental picture of it.

Informal poll: How many of you know exactly what I'm talking about? How many just shook your head and chalked this up as another penguin peculiarity?

I started thinking about whether I do that! I think what I do when I meet "Kathy" is that I do instinctively visualize a spelling right away, but not necessarily the spelling she uses, so it can throw me for a loop if I later find out she's Cathie. With regular words, I usually have seen it in print before I use it, and I'm decent at remembering spellings I've seen in print.

[Wpwells]

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

This was literally the first time in my life I have ever written the word.

Interesting. In my case, that would be irrelevant. I (almost) always know how I would spell any word I use, even if I never have cause to spell it. Mrs P is the same way. That's just how we relate to words cognitively. For us, if someone introduces herself as "Kathy," we immediately need to know--C or K at the start? Y or IE at the end? Without that information, we feel we haven't really learned the name and don't have a clear mental picture of it.

Informal poll: How many of you know exactly what I'm talking about? How many just shook your head and chalked this up as another penguin peculiarity?

I started thinking about whether I do that! I think what I do when I meet "Kathy" is that I do instinctively visualize a spelling right away, but not necessarily the spelling she uses, so it can throw me for a loop if I later find out she's Cathie. With regular words, I usually have seen it in print before I use it, and I'm decent at remembering spellings I've seen in print.

I get this. My girlfriend's name is "Kristin" and she's constantly having to correct the last "i" from an "e"

[KellyLasiter]

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

This was literally the first time in my life I have ever written the word.

Interesting. In my case, that would be irrelevant. I (almost) always know how I would spell any word I use, even if I never have cause to spell it. Mrs P is the same way. That's just how we relate to words cognitively. For us, if someone introduces herself as "Kathy," we immediately need to know--C or K at the start? Y or IE at the end? Without that information, we feel we haven't really learned the name and don't have a clear mental picture of it.

Informal poll: How many of you know exactly what I'm talking about? How many just shook your head and chalked this up as another penguin peculiarity?

I started thinking about whether I do that! I think what I do when I meet "Kathy" is that I do instinctively visualize a spelling right away, but not necessarily the spelling she uses, so it can throw me for a loop if I later find out she's Cathie. With regular words, I usually have seen it in print before I use it, and I'm decent at remembering spellings I've seen in print.

I get this. My girlfriend's name is "Kristin" and she's constantly having to correct the last "i" to be an "e"

I used to work for a Kirsteen. Couple of different opportunities to screw that one up, and most people did them all.

[AFRET CMS]

At least no one is proposing pronouncing sherbet so as to rhyme with "sorbet." Don't know if it's regional or individual idiosyncrasy (Mom's side is from Tennessee), but half the family says "Feb-you-ary" while the other half says "Feb-rue-ary." We all spell it the same way, though.

Can't think of a Jeopardy clue where it would make a difference. But for the record, I agree with the judges. The only time I've seen it permissible to insert an R sound where the letter is not present is in German (in Frankfurt, danke schoen is pronounced "shern," not "shane."

[dhkendall]

OK, why do mathematicians need calculus to prove that pi is smaller than 22/7? I would think anyone who knows incredibly basic math knows that 3.1415..., the proven value of pi, is smaller than 3.1428..., the proven value of 22/7.

As part of the opening Alex said the awaited, “I’m in awe.”

That's one shoe dropped.

And speaking of Harper Lee, you all know she was a big fan of yours truly, right?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/book ... athed.html

I have a tiny hope that this fact will some day appear in a Jeopardy! clue. I have an even tinier hope that it won't be a triple stumper.

And an even tinier hope than that that you'll be a contestant on that show and the clue will read: "Harper Lee told Berkeley Breathed in a letter that this character of his "really delighted me." I think you'd have a happinessgasm if this was your clue.

On the other hand, it makes me wonder how the judges would have ruled in the "Three Straight Vowels" category if Austin had pronounced "lieutenant" as "LEF-TEN-ANT" (as the British).

My guess is that it would be fine because "sherbert" is a variant spelling but "lieutenant" is always spelled the same way.

I pronounced it leftenant at home because that's the Canadian pronunciation as well but quickly corrected myself because it was referring to the NYPD, and if they negged me, they'd have a case.

because, alas, Austin pivoted another runaway game.

I don't think you know what "pivoted" means, because that sentence makes no sense.

I don't think that he knew what any of the words in his post means because the whole post doesn't make sense!

MTGcollegestudent is jboard's Vizzini.

I have always said sherbert but said sherbet when playing along watching the game. I wonder if they hadn't specified about it ending in bet if they'd have taken sherbert.

But when you pronounce it sherbert, do you also spell it that way? Or is it spelled "sherbet" no matter which way you pronounce it? If the latter, then the pronunciation sherbert can't be disqualified on spelling grounds. It could still be disqualified as an incorrect pronunciation if the judges wanted to make that ruling. Depends how laxadaisical they're feeling, I suppose.

When I was a kid I always pronounced it sherbert. I noticed the container said sherbet, but I figured I and my family pronounced it this way because my middle name is Herbert and they were having a bit of fun. When I got older I eventually stopped noticing the missing "r".

I see where the judges are coming from, but I'm guessing that Austin may have ground for appeal too. New Yorkers, like my family, may indeed pronounce "sherbet" "sherbert", it has the required "-bet" ending, but it's pronounced with an r.

I'm sure there are other places that pronounce it "Throatwarbler Mangrove."