Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

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cthulhu
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by cthulhu »

John Boy wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am I have a question that actually refers to Monday's game, but I forgot to ask it in the proper thread. I hope you'll indulge me for asking something that is off-topic in this thread.

I have been a Dallas Cowboys fan for over 50 years, including most of the time when Bob Lilly was playing. I actually lived in Dallas during the last 4 years or so of his career. And in all that time I can not remember once, EVER, hearing him referred to as "Tiger Lilly" as was reported in a clue on Monday's game.

Any of you familiar with that nickname?
I have also been a Cowboys fan for about 50 years and have never heard that nickname either.

Speaking of the Cowboys though, if I ever make it on the show, I'm hoping that the air date of my episode is the Friday before the Super Bowl, the category is the Super Bowl, and the clue is "this player is the only player from the losing team to win the game MVP award, name the player, team, and which Super Bowl". Got that one down cold 8-)

Regarding Tuesday's game, instaget FJ (although I wouldn't put Sgt. Pepper in the top 20 myself, and it's no better than fourth at best among Beatles albums IMHO). I personally think that Sgt Pepper or Sgt Pepper's should have been accepted, and that it would have been easy to say to the contestants - something like "If your choice has a well-known abbreviation or shortening of the full name, that is acceptable" and an example could be "Alice in Wonderland" instead of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland". Easy-peasy. But either way, I agree that Wilbur's response was incorrect.

I also agree with those who think that long answers are somewhat unfair and not in the spirit of the show.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Ish »

My local affiliate has been off the air this week, so I first saw this Final Jeopardy clue on the j-archive as the latest game. Instaget with the immediate subsequent thought "I wonder if the contestants can write down the answer in time?" I haven't seen the game and came to the message board to satisfy my curiosity. Turns out, not all of them could. Yes, they should bring Wilbur back - that's a flag on whoever made the decision to make that a clue on Final Jeopardy. He definitely knew and communicated the answer, and he ran out of time because there was too much to write - not because he thought about it too long.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by CailinGaoilge »

Ish wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:03 pm Yes, they should bring Wilbur back - that's a flag on whoever made the decision to make that a clue on Final Jeopardy. He definitely knew and communicated the answer, and he ran out of time because there was too much to write - not because he thought about it too long.
So how do you explain the fact that Kiana did manage to write the entire title in time? Genuinely curious, not playing gotcha.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Ish »

Sure, some people write faster than others. I wondered how many contestants would be have time to write Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band down, thinking some might (hopefully remembering to abbreviate sergeant and omit punctuation), and thought some might say "Sgt Peppers". Very good speed in forming letters with a light pen is something that shouldn't be required by a Final Jeopardy clue - that's way outside the purpose of the game because Final allows you to think for a few seconds, even potentially reviewing or changing your answer.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf »

Ish wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:39 pm Sure, some people write faster than others. I wondered how many contestants would be have time to write Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band down, thinking some might (hopefully remembering to abbreviate sergeant and omit punctuation), and thought some might say "Sgt Peppers". Very good speed in forming letters with a light pen is something that shouldn't be required by a Final Jeopardy clue - that's way outside the purpose of the game because Final allows you to think for a few seconds, even potentially reviewing or changing your answer.
Some people have better reaction speed with the buzzer. Some people read the clues faster than others thereby giving them more time to think of the answer. Having those attributes is an advantage, but it's not unfair. Just like being able to write faster.

It wasn't an unfair clue, just a clunker.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by CailinGaoilge »

Ish wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:39 pm Sure, some people write faster than others. I wondered how many contestants would be have time to write Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band down, thinking some might (hopefully remembering to abbreviate sergeant and omit punctuation), and thought some might say "Sgt Peppers". Very good speed in forming letters with a light pen is something that shouldn't be required by a Final Jeopardy clue - that's way outside the purpose of the game because Final allows you to think for a few seconds, even potentially reviewing or changing your answer.
While I definitely agree with the many who've said that FJ clues should not require a lengthy answer, I did watch the video J! put up showing the FJ in its entirety - it's clear that Kiana started writing very quickly, while Wilbur stood and thought for quite a chunk of the time before beginning to write.

But, yes, the variance in required writing in FJ has been very unreasonable - from the recent "K" to this response is really quite ridiculous and very unfair to the contestants caught on the longer end.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by PeteMoss »

They really need to bring Wilbur back. It is the only fair thing to do.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

PeteMoss wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:45 am They really need to bring Wilbur back. It is the only fair thing to do.
It would be nice. It wouldn't be fair. People don't get asked to come back because they draw a horrible board or misspell the FJ, how is this any different?
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Ish »

This is different because it was obvious that the clue would cause a writing race to decide the game. After reading the clue, realizing a writing race would ensue was instant to me. The producers should have foreseen the obvious hazard of a 40+ character question.
As you point out, there are other FJ clues that should be avoided - like foreign phrases difficult to spell but that could be pronounced - but credit is given for phonetic spelling by policy.
This brought to mind this Brad Rutter game where Rutter changed his original response at the last second and raced to correct it, forming a hurried squiggly illegible line. He was given the opportunity to state what he had attempted to write:
http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=291
Without credit for that answer, no legend.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by squarekara »

"Sgt Pepper's" should have been a valid response in itself, and Wilbur's incomplete response contained this term. Back in my Ziggy Stardust mullet days (oh, yes), I frequented a Southern California hair salon called Billy Shears. (I know, I know.) It was run by a Beatles superfan and crammed with tons of memorabilia, and you couldn't talk about anything else. At no time did anyone speak of "SPLHCB"--only "SP."
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by acthomas »

squarekara wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:39 pm "Sgt Pepper's" should have been a valid response in itself, and Wilbur's incomplete response contained this term. Back in my Ziggy Stardust mullet days (oh, yes), I frequented a Southern California hair salon called Billy Shears. (I know, I know.) It was run by a Beatles superfan and crammed with tons of memorabilia, and you couldn't talk about anything else. At no time did anyone speak of "SPLHCB"--only "SP."
The fact that Billy Shears exists as a salon now eclipses one of my favorite Simpsons sight gags, which in hindsight might also explain it.

Image
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

acthomas wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:51 pm
squarekara wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:39 pm "Sgt Pepper's" should have been a valid response in itself, and Wilbur's incomplete response contained this term. Back in my Ziggy Stardust mullet days (oh, yes), I frequented a Southern California hair salon called Billy Shears. (I know, I know.) It was run by a Beatles superfan and crammed with tons of memorabilia, and you couldn't talk about anything else. At no time did anyone speak of "SPLHCB"--only "SP."
The fact that Billy Shears exists as a salon now eclipses one of my favorite Simpsons sight gags, which in hindsight might also explain it.

Image
Simpsons also has Harry Shearer (Burns, Smithers, Flanders, &c) as a voice actor
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by acthomas »

Volante wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:29 pm
acthomas wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:51 pm
squarekara wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:39 pm "Sgt Pepper's" should have been a valid response in itself, and Wilbur's incomplete response contained this term. Back in my Ziggy Stardust mullet days (oh, yes), I frequented a Southern California hair salon called Billy Shears. (I know, I know.) It was run by a Beatles superfan and crammed with tons of memorabilia, and you couldn't talk about anything else. At no time did anyone speak of "SPLHCB"--only "SP."
The fact that Billy Shears exists as a salon now eclipses one of my favorite Simpsons sight gags, which in hindsight might also explain it.

Image
Simpsons also has Harry Shearer (Burns, Smithers, Flanders, &c) as a voice actor
I should probably have said "might also better explain it", but maybe I just assume everyone else mainlined the Simpsons as much as I did when the show was still good and that said connection was just obvious.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

28 R
FJ: :mrgreen:
LT: Cosmopolitan, Althing, Cordoba, (Wright Brothers)
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by BigDaddyMatty »

Coryat: $34,400
46 R/0 W
DD: 2/3
FJ: (Spoiled)
LT: Torah, Joseph, dilemma, cosmopolitan, The Netherlands, Althing

I got spoiled on FJ! because of all the hubbub on social media. I think the decision was the correct one, although I would have expected TPTB to accept Sgt. Pepper('s).

I'm surprised no one (well, opus, mostly) has mentioned that there was no correct response to the first clue of the game. It reads, "In the book of Matthew, to calm his disciples who are on a boat during a storm, Jesus does this." Seeing someone walking on the water was what we are told startled the disciples. Jesus identifies himself and tells the disciples to not be afraid. The disciples are presumably calmed by his salutation, though the text is not explicit in indicating such:

Matthew 14 (KJV)
23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.

25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.

33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

BigDaddyMatty wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:51 pm I'm surprised no one (well, opus, mostly) has mentioned that there was no correct response to the first clue of the game. It reads, "In the book of Matthew, to calm his disciples who are on a boat during a storm, Jesus does this." Seeing someone walking on the water was what we are told startled the disciples. Jesus identifies himself and tells the disciples to not be afraid. The disciples are presumably calmed by his salutation, though the text is not explicit in indicating such:
I forgot to mention that clue! Mrs. P and I were both thrown off by it because we were thinking of a different time when Jesus was in the boat but asleep. In that case, the disciples woke him up and he rebuked the wind and told the sea to be still. I think they'd have to accept that as a response as well.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by BigDaddyMatty »

opusthepenguin wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:28 pm
BigDaddyMatty wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:51 pm I'm surprised no one (well, opus, mostly) has mentioned that there was no correct response to the first clue of the game. It reads, "In the book of Matthew, to calm his disciples who are on a boat during a storm, Jesus does this." Seeing someone walking on the water was what we are told startled the disciples. Jesus identifies himself and tells the disciples to not be afraid. The disciples are presumably calmed by his salutation, though the text is not explicit in indicating such:
I forgot to mention that clue! Mrs. P and I were both thrown off by it because we were thinking of a different time when Jesus was in the boat but asleep. In that case, the disciples woke him up and he rebuked the wind and told the sea to be still. I think they'd have to accept that as a response as well.
That's what I said as well, and I ended up counting my response as correct.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by squarekara »

I recently played the official "Jeopardy World Tour" game on my phone, and a category came up called Name the Year. The clue ran something like: the Summer of Love in this year was when "Sgt. Pepper's" came out.
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Re: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

squarekara wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:03 pm I recently played the official "Jeopardy World Tour" game on my phone, and a category came up called Name the Year. The clue ran something like: the Summer of Love in this year was when "Sgt. Pepper's" came out.
What is 1967?
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