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For strategic reasons, you are making a $0 wager in Final Jeopardy, but then you know the correct question. What do you write down?

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm For strategic reasons, you are making a $0 wager in Final Jeopardy, but then you know the correct question. What do you right down?

We run into this periodically in pub trivia. We've got the lead going into the final question and, for strategic reasons, decide to bet zero. We still make a good faith attempt to get the question right because why not?

Woof wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:19 pm

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm For strategic reasons, you are making a $0 wager in Final Jeopardy, but then you know the correct question. What do you right down?

We run into this periodically in pub trivia. We've got the lead going into the final question and, for strategic reasons, decide to bet zero. We still make a good faith attempt to get the question right because why not?

I could see that at pub trivia, because answering all questions correctly is the reason you're there, and to not try and answer it would mean not participating in an entire round of the game. Also is nice to see if your team would've gotten it anyway.

But with Jeopardy, you are a solo player, and you know if you would've gotten it anyway...if there is a chance for a good joke, I would probably go for the good joke.

I just can't imagine not writing down the correct response if you know it.

Michael Dupée specifically says in his book that if you bet $0 in Final Jeopardy, you should not attempt the question, because otherwise, random people will ask you why you bet $0 on something you knew.

I would be really tempted to show the world that I knew the correct response. But strategically it makes more sense not to let future opponents have that information. The odds of this affecting the outcome in a future game are very slim but still non-zero. So I think my pride in playing the best strategic game I could would overcome my pride in wanting to show off my knowledge. I can't be sure, though.

This is all assuming that my $0 wager gives me a chance at winning. If I'm just trying to preserve a 2nd place finish when 1st place has a runaway, yeah I'll put down the right response if I know it. Unless I've already won enough in previous games that I have a shot at the TOC. In that case there's a future value to keeping my mouth shut now, so again I clam.

OntarioQuizzer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:33 pm Michael Dupée specifically says in his book that if you bet $0 in Final Jeopardy, you should not attempt the question, because otherwise, random people will ask you why you bet $0 on something you knew.

It's not like it's all that difficult to explain it, though.

opusthepenguin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:36 pm I would be really tempted to show the world that I knew the correct response. But strategically it makes more sense not to let future opponents have that information. The odds of this affecting the outcome in a future game are very slim but still non-zero. So I think my pride in playing the best strategic game I could would overcome my pride in wanting to show off my knowledge. I can't be sure, though.

Don't be so certain that hiding your response is strategic, Opus. Psychology plays a not-insignificant role in J! play, so perhaps getting into your opponents' heads by showing near-omniscience could be strategic, too. Analogously, on occasion, I have deliberately not mucked my down cards in Texas Hold'em tournaments simply to get inside my opponents' heads in one way or another.

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:38 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:33 pm Michael Dupée specifically says in his book that if you bet $0 in Final Jeopardy, you should not attempt the question, because otherwise, random people will ask you why you bet $0 on something you knew.

It's not like it's all that difficult to explain it, though.

Or you could just

This Is Kirk! wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:48 pm

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:38 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:33 pm Michael Dupée specifically says in his book that if you bet $0 in Final Jeopardy, you should not attempt the question, because otherwise, random people will ask you why you bet $0 on something you knew.

It's not like it's all that difficult to explain it, though.

Or you could just

Or even ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:51 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:48 pm

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:38 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:33 pm Michael Dupée specifically says in his book that if you bet $0 in Final Jeopardy, you should not attempt the question, because otherwise, random people will ask you why you bet $0 on something you knew.

It's not like it's all that difficult to explain it, though.

Or you could just

Or even ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As long as Alex isn't there. He doesn't know what that is.

The one time I bet $0 on FJ, I was the only contestant to get it right. I wouldn't give that up. Plus, it let my opponent in first place know a second earlier that she was going to lose.

I understand the idea of not letting your opponents know what you know, but I feel like a correct FJ response gives them an amount of information that's infinitesimal enough to be negligible. After all, unless one is willing to make non-cover bets in FJ*, one doesn't really have to bet based on whether one thinks one's opponent will get something right. And besides that, everyone knows the correct FJ response after the round has been played; your future opponents will see you either knowing it or learning it. FJ shows what you knew, not what you know.

*I'm thinking specifically of Dan Pawson, who determined in his sixth game that his opponent Jason Thweatt, while strong with raw knowledge, was weaker at puzzling things out, and bet $799 from his $800 lead presuming that FJ would be more of a puzzle than regular clues. He won in a TS, breaking a long streak of 5x champs losing their sixth game.

What is avocado toast?

morbeedo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:04 pm What is avocado toast?

Avocado toast is a type of open sandwich or toast made with mashed avocado and salt, pepper, and citrus juice on toast. Other additional ingredients that would enhance the flavor are olive oil, red pepper flakes, feta, dukkah, everything bagel seasoning and many other toppings.

why do you ask?

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:51 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:48 pm

alietr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:38 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:33 pm Michael Dupée specifically says in his book that if you bet $0 in Final Jeopardy, you should not attempt the question, because otherwise, random people will ask you why you bet $0 on something you knew.

It's not like it's all that difficult to explain it, though.

Or you could just

Or even ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The answer would be, "I bet $0 on the subject, with no knowledge of the specifics of the question which would be asked after submitting my bet."

seaborgium wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:12 pm I understand the idea of not letting your opponents know what you know, but I feel like a correct FJ response gives them an amount of information that's infinitesimal enough to be negligible. After all, unless one is willing to make non-cover bets in FJ*, one doesn't really have to bet based on whether one thinks one's opponent will get something right. And besides that, everyone knows the correct FJ response after the round has been played; your future opponents will see you either knowing it or learning it. FJ shows what you knew, not what you know.

I think the point is that it can show the kind of thing you know. E.g. if you get a really tough geography clue that your opponents whiff on. Or you miss a dead easy Shakespeare clue. I agree that the advantage is probably negligible. And to the extent it exists at all, it's probably more for people like Alex Jacob who will go on to a TOC and other special games.

triviawayne wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:19 pm

morbeedo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:04 pm What is avocado toast?

Avocado toast is a type of open sandwich or toast made with mashed avocado and salt, pepper, and citrus juice on toast. Other additional ingredients that would enhance the flavor are olive oil, red pepper flakes, feta, dukkah, everything bagel seasoning and many other toppings.

why do you ask?

That’s what I would write for my $0 FJ wager response. Or ‘chocolate babies’, which I wouldn’t expect most of America to get

Maybe a combination of question plus comment/joke. Or maybe just the correct question, to psych out opponents. But I'm not sure.

morbeedo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:44 pm

triviawayne wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:19 pm

morbeedo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:04 pm What is avocado toast?

Avocado toast is a type of open sandwich or toast made with mashed avocado and salt, pepper, and citrus juice on toast. Other additional ingredients that would enhance the flavor are olive oil, red pepper flakes, feta, dukkah, everything bagel seasoning and many other toppings.

why do you ask?

That’s what I would write for my $0 FJ wager response. Or ‘chocolate babies’, which I wouldn’t expect most of America to get

IT'S A CLOWN, YOU IDIOT...IT'S A CLOWN!!!

morbeedo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:44 pm

triviawayne wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:19 pm

morbeedo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:04 pm What is avocado toast?

Avocado toast is a type of open sandwich or toast made with mashed avocado and salt, pepper, and citrus juice on toast. Other additional ingredients that would enhance the flavor are olive oil, red pepper flakes, feta, dukkah, everything bagel seasoning and many other toppings.

why do you ask?

That’s what I would write for my $0 FJ wager response. Or ‘chocolate babies’, which I wouldn’t expect most of America to get

Good one