Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by RKane » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:42 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:27 pm
RKane wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:04 pm
However, he left a lot of money on the table over the years, I suspect probably over a million dollars.
Ken left $119,978 on the table over 74 games. (An average of $1,621 a show.)
Where are you getting the source of this? That seems incredibly low, unless we have differing definitions of "leaving money on the table"? FWIW I am defining money left on the table as, in a lock-game situation:

{[Ken's DJ score] - 2*[runner-ups DJ score] - 1} - [Ken's wager]
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:27 pm
RKane wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:04 pm
*But not "all for himself." He had the top two all for himself, and shared the third (= fourth = fifth = sixth) place spot with Myron.
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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:48 pm

RKane wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:42 pm
Where are you getting the source of this? That seems incredibly low, unless we have differing definitions of "leaving money on the table"? FWIW I am defining money left on the table as, in a lock-game situation:

{[Ken's DJ score] - 2*[runner-ups DJ score] - 1} - [Ken's wager]
Literally the stats I compiled in 2004: https://thejeopardyfan.com/statistics/k ... statistics

And I am using an expanded definition, also including betting the max possible in crush games.

Remember that Ken got 24 Final Jeopardy! clues incorrect, and he was essentially *saving* money in those situations by not betting as much as he could have.
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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by RKane » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:58 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:48 pm
RKane wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:42 pm
Where are you getting the source of this? That seems incredibly low, unless we have differing definitions of "leaving money on the table"? FWIW I am defining money left on the table as, in a lock-game situation:

{[Ken's DJ score] - 2*[runner-ups DJ score] - 1} - [Ken's wager]
Literally the stats I compiled in 2004: https://thejeopardyfan.com/statistics/k ... statistics

And I am using an expanded definition, also including betting the max possible in crush games.

Remember that Ken got 24 Final Jeopardy! clues incorrect, and he was essentially *saving* money in those situations by not betting as much as he could have.
Well thanks for sharing that. Hats off for compiling all that. The fact that he only left $119k is unbelievable to me, but stats don't lie. I guess those wrong answers add up after all; in this game, for instance, he saved himself nearly $30k by not going full Martian (or, as I like to call it, full Spangenbergian). So fair enough.

That being said, my original point that he could have had the top large number of sports in single-day winnings is borne out; I appreciate that you actually found the number, namely 17. Which is in its own way a mindblowing number; not many players win that many games in the first place, and it also represents over a fifth of his games.
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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:47 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:14 am
16,000 for James at the first break. Not too shabby. Katie was not heard from until Alex talked to her.

Adam and James were not about to take a nap with the remaining $400 clues to give Katie a chance to play the FJ! round. No mercy.
I thought the same thing. Let her back in the game!! When Alex announced she was out of the hole but not on the plus side, someone's mic picked up a very audible snicker. What was that about?

I really felt the pathos for the challengers today, especially Katie who hit a brick wall and watched her Jeopardy! dream die in a matter of minutes. I'm not enjoying the bloodbath

THURBER - nope! Feet of clay? Huh? The nursery rhyme? Not in a million years. Damnyouautocorrect went right past me. The rest of the material was much more my speed.

Instaget Final. I think I've only missed one FJ during James' run, which means these clues are much easier than they should be

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Le Master » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:53 pm

morbeedo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:47 pm

When Alex announced she was out of the hole but not on the plus side, someone's mic picked up a very audible snicker. What was that about?
Yeah, that was James's laugh. He's snickered like that before. I assume it wasn't regarding Katie, but the timing was unfortunate.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Vintsanity » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:27 pm
RKane wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:04 pm
However, he left a lot of money on the table over the years, I suspect probably over a million dollars.
Ken left $119,978 on the table over 74 games. (An average of $1,621 a show.)
He probably left substantially more on the table by underbetting on DDs, a higher percentage proposition than FJ. Not saying he should have gone TDD all the time (I'm aware that he would have beat Zerg had he bet the minimum on DDs in that game) but he liked to aim for big round numbers when he often could have safely gone for much more.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:13 pm

TIL that feet of clay was biblical in origin. Kudos to the writers for a great clue, and to James for squaring up the barrel on it.

I love the "Sounds like Pig Latin" category, but "Power Play" doesn't work. "Ower Play" sounds like Plower. I can't recall the other clues because of the speed of play I didn't catch on the theme until the last one.

ETA - I forgot to SMH at James picking up poor Katie's whiff for a cheap rebound with "glass flute", and negging anyway. It hurt her more than it did him. I think this is at least the third time I've seen the glass harmonica on J!, and it seems to be a staple.

FJ was instaget - if they continue, some challenger is going to have to lead going into FJ. The area equates to about 300 miles per side - way too small for Siberia, sounds like a good land grab for a nostalgic cold warrior. The 2 hour offset ought to register for mental maps, vs. Siberia likely being at least 5 time zones, maybe 8 due to the northern latitude.

The contestants should coordinate and wear Star Trek red shirts to their Kobayashi Maru tapings.
It's too bad about James' dirty laundry - otherwise, he is perfectly likable. I have noticed a tinge of Matt Jackson (?) rude clue calling before Alex is done. I only recall one uncalled clue during the run because of the lightning speed of play.
Last edited by twelvefootboy on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:57 pm

Wasn't sure on FJ if the area was just called Crimea or had some Russian name, went with Crimea.
Tried to play along on the archive. The other contestants can try to find the DDs first, but James picking up "Dapple Grey" before the second DD just leaves a contestant frustrated.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:03 am

James was most impressive with his knowledge base today.

LOL at Adam for holding back a dollar on his FJ wager. Not that it mattered of course.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:20 am

It was pointed out to me that if you look at the banners in the category introduction you will note that the Clue Crew clues at the Franklin Institute were recorded a year ago or more.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:49 am

I noticed tonight that James got beaten to the buzzer on 3 of the 5 clue crew clues at the Franklin Institute, making me wonder if the "champion's advantage" is lessened on video clues where the lights aren't being triggered off Alex's voice. Of course this is a small sample and there's no way to know if he was trying to ring in on all of them, but it does seem logical that the best buzzers will be off a bit when switching to video clues read by not-Alex.

Kevin pointed out in the Monday thread that he won the buzz on 3 of 5 video clues, but I believe 4/5 of these were read by Alex while 1 was by Jimmy. If there's an image on the monitor, does the full text of the clue still appear in the regular clue box? I believe this would be the case, so that the players, after seeing the image, could still look back to the clue box and see the final words of the clue, in order to time their buzz with Alex's voice. I've not gone back through all 9 games to see if this "video clue" effect is significant, but it's something I'm watching for going forward.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:23 am

New vocabulary term: the Holzhauer Horizontal is picking the highest valued clues across the board first to build up a large cash total before landing on a DD and then going all in in the J! round or very large in the DJ! round.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 am

No words. It is almost impossible right now to gain control from him. You have the buzzer dominance of Ken combined with the daredevil ways of Alex, Roger, Larissa, etc. As I said the other day, if you are an opponent, you want him to hit the DD right away so you at least take away the possibility of $20K after the J! round.

That said, one of the challengers today was within range of potentially making it temporarily interesting if he would have hit the DD in one of the few moments he had control of the board.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Category 13 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:06 am

morbeedo wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote: Katie was not heard from until Alex talked to her.

Adam and James were not about to take a nap with the remaining $400 clues to give Katie a chance to play the FJ! round. No mercy.
I thought the same thing. Let her back in the game!!
That wasn't very sportsmanlike of either Adam or James.
When Katie was at zero, I noticed James hadn't rung in for several clues. I thought "cool, he is going to stay put and let Katie have a shot". But Adam kept clicking away, oblivious to the opportunity for chivalry. And then James up and rings in on clue 60. WTF, dude?
I have to wonder if James was doing some number crunching while he lay dormant, and thought of some reason to add $400 to his score on behalf of more numerology. :evil:

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:06 am

Well, given that everyone who has gotten past five digits in regular games has won a total beginning with 1, 2, or 4, I guess James is going to get to a million now.

And now I am unspoiled about James. Jackie Fox posted on Facebook in advance of James's first game (like, "You're going to want to watch Jeopardy tonight") and someone commented about having been in attendance for his 8th and 9th games, and Jackie was away from FB for several hours so she couldn't strike his comments from the record till she showed up again.


I keep thinking that a Russian region in news from this century is going to be Chechnya. I considered Crimea as the only other possibility, without enough knowledge to feel strongly in any direction. And now James is one better than me on his FJs (I got the one he didn't get, and I've missed two).

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by SBurrus » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:41 am

James was absolutely on fire in Tuesday night's game. Impressive performance once again.

I felt really bad for Katie...just imagining myself in her position after waiting a very long time to finally get on the show only to be up against a human machine...then not getting to ring in on that final clue to at least be around for FJ.

I also heard the snicker while AT was making his concluding remarks leading into the reveal of the FJ category after announcing that Katie wouldn't be able to play FJ...and thought it was in very bad taste.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:43 am

yclept wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 am
As I said the other day, if you are an opponent, you want him to hit the DD right away so you at least take away the possibility of $20K after the J! round.
Part of his strategy in what I have called the Holzhauer Horizontal is that he goes to the highest values clues first and the DD is less likely to be there, allowing him to accumulate at least a decent sum before he might hit it.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:01 am

Category 13 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:06 am
That wasn't very sportsmanlike of either Adam or James.
Snicker aside, I'm guessing the pace of the game was such that they probably didn't even notice at the time that they were doing that. You're up there, and you want to get right answers and that's pretty much your focus.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Mathew5000 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 am

Sometimes I wonder about the particular process that led the writers to an FJ clue like this one. Were they thinking, we should do an FJ about the takeover of Crimea, and then came across the time zone fact in their research? Or were they researching time zones, and happened on to an item about the change in Crimea, and then considered it for an FJ clue. There's a BBC video here of celebrations in Simferopol as the hands on the large clock at the train station move forward two hours. An article in the Washington Post, "The surprising political importance of Crimea’s shift to Moscow time", notes that for any government, a time zone change is a "remarkably simple way" to affect every citizen's day-to-day life.

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Re: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mdude04 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:20 am

Imagine being in that audience and seeing what must seem to you like an unbelievable feat with James getting a six-figure payday. And Alex Trebek barely mentioning it.

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