James wouldn't have lost pre-James

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

FS7
Contributor
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:15 pm

James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by FS7 »

It's a testament to James that the fundamental transformation of the game he brought about ultimately helped do him in.

James had a relatively low Coryat, but only because the others were relatively high. Even so, he still led Emma by almost 5000. It was her true DD that made the difference, and I highly, highly doubt she makes that bet in a pre-James game. My memory is a bit hazy on the details of Ken's run but I wonder if there were opportunities for challengers to capitalize on a bit of luck that they didn't take. We all remember Game 18 (Michael and Adam) where the big bets were made to catch up, but not to take a commanding lead.

The comparisons are inevitable, but I think the two questions to answer are whether Ken, playing with equivalent signaling speed and knowledge, could do something similar in today's game and whether James could do the same in Ken's era.

User avatar
OntarioQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

Emma came in cold. She made that bet without having seen James play once.
Andy Saunders
Moderator, #JeopardyLivePanel
Host, Complete The List
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Site Admin - The Jeopardy! Fan

Austin Powers
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1644
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Austin Powers »

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 am
Emma came in cold. She made that bet without having seen James play once.
Sure. But she certainly is capable of dividing $2 million+ by 30+games
Last edited by Austin Powers on Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

shambolic
Contributor
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by shambolic »

Emma clearly knows her stuff, and has apparently spent a fair amount of time studying the mechanics of the game. She didn't miss a single question, and bet big when the situation demanded it. It's not impossible that, like Adam Levin, she played more aggressively because she knew she was up against a juggernaut (since she heard his money total announced, even if she didn't see him play), but although James is a pretty revolutionary player, it's not like he invented the True Daily Double either. I'm not sure what percentage of matches James would win against Emma given a larger sample size, but sometimes you just get outplayed. I do think it would be interesting to see the two of them face off again in the ToC this fall though.

User avatar
OntarioQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:17 am
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 am
Emma came in cold. She made that bet without having seen James play once.
Sure. But she certainly is capable of dividing $2 million+/30+games
Still, though. Emma has literally studied the game more than maybe three or four people here on JBoard. She knew what she was doing, James or no James.
Andy Saunders
Moderator, #JeopardyLivePanel
Host, Complete The List
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Site Admin - The Jeopardy! Fan

User avatar
JayK33
Just a Fan
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:10 pm
Location: Canada

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by JayK33 »

Shouldn't this thread be considered a spoiler since the mentioned game happened not long ago?

Austin Powers
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1644
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Austin Powers »

JayK33 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:39 am
Shouldn't this thread be considered a spoiler since the mentioned game happened not long ago?
The game made the cover of major newspapers. It was on ESPN’s Bottom Line scroll. It was the highest rated episode in ten years.

Also Jon kills Dany.

yclept
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:43 am

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by yclept »

Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:17 am
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 am
Emma came in cold. She made that bet without having seen James play once.
Sure. But she certainly is capable of dividing $2 million+ by 30+games
Yeah, there is no way to hear that total and not quickly understand how he must be doing it. You aren’t averaging $75K per game or so without hunting for DDs and betting big once you find them.

May she have done that against a random champion with a much more modest per game total? We will never quite know the answer to that. We will know more about her DD strategies and aggressiveness if she hits any today.

Caboom
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:49 am

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Caboom »

Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
Spoiler
Also Jon kills Dany.
Wow, what an asshole. I hope you're happy you ruined the ending for me. But then knowing how arrogant and condescending you regularly are, I'm 100 % sure you couldn't care less.

User avatar
MarkBarrett
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 10884
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:37 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by MarkBarrett »

Does anyone know the timing of calls vs. taping? Emma came in cold knowing nothing about James and his run, but what did the powers know? Emma got "The Call" prior to any of James's games being taped? Or did the CCs have an idea of just what James was capable of doing and there was the possibility for them to adjust their contestant selections?
Last edited by MarkBarrett on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vintsanity
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:55 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Vintsanity »

FS7 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:49 am
It's a testament to James that the fundamental transformation of the game he brought about ultimately helped do him in.
That's what the great ones do in nearly any competition. They raise the level of play of everyone around them and then fall victim to the increased competition if they slip up just a little.

Tiger Woods 2010-2018 probably wins 5-10 majors if he was playing in the '90s or earlier.

CharlieD
Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by CharlieD »

Emma is one of the few opponents of James who recognized how she had to play to beat him. In last Thursday's game, Faizan Kothari didn't go all in, despite needing everything he could get in a game that was slipping away from him. He didn't recognize the situation at all. He, like most of James' victims, was still playing the game he expected to play when he walked into the studio. Nate Scheffey and Satish Chandrasekhar didn't bet everything when they had the chance either. Adam Levin was perhaps the only other player with the skill and DD strategy to take James down, and he just missed.
Emma bet it all when she had to. She hesitated saying 'true daily double', which tells me she didn't come in expecting to have to bet everything to overcome a strong player, but she did it because it was the obvious right move in a game that was slipping away from her, as James' knowledge had become apparent, and his lead was growing.
She walked into the studio in the the 'pre-James' era, as she only found out about his streak that morning, having never seen him play. She must have thought, 'oh boy, this is another Ken Jennings. I better be aggressive.' She responded perfectly by playing a perfect game.
I hope Emma wins 5 games and makes the TOC, to have a rematch with James. That would swell the ratings again.

Austin Powers
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1644
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Austin Powers »

Caboom wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:15 am
Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
Spoiler
Also Jon kills Dany.
Wow, what an asshole. I hope you're happy you ruined the ending for me. But then knowing how arrogant and condescending you regularly are, I'm 100 % sure you couldn't care less.
I think the ending was ruined even for folks who watched it live :-(

User avatar
RJRouge
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:39 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by RJRouge »

Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
[quote=JayK33 post_id=309749 time=1559659199
Spoiler
Also Jon kills Dany.
You son of a bitch.

User avatar
MarkBarrett
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 10884
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:37 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by MarkBarrett »

Lots of hopeful leapfrogging dreams to go from Emma winning one game to having her not only win at least four games to make the TOC, but then make the finals of the ToC, while James would have to make the finals as well since they would not have the rematch in the QF or SF round since they met in regular play.

[Dang, what a sentence, sorry.]

Time will tell.

Austin Powers
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1644
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Austin Powers »

RJRouge wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:59 am
Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
[quote=JayK33 post_id=309749 time=1559659199
Spoiler
Also Jon kills Dany.
You son of a bitch.
I take it you don’t want to know what happens to Bran?

CharlieD
Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by CharlieD »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:01 pm
Lots of hopeful leapfrogging dreams to go from Emma winning one game to having her not only win at least four games to make the TOC, but then make the finals of the ToC, while James would have to make the finals as well since they would not have the rematch in the QF or SF round since they met in regular play.

[Dang, what a sentence, sorry.]

Time will tell.
A second meeting is unlikely, but I'm rooting for it.

Roland
Contributor
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:04 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Roland »

Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:09 pm
RJRouge wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:59 am
Austin Powers wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
[quote=JayK33 post_id=309749 time=1559659199
Spoiler
Also Jon kills Dany.
You son of a bitch.
I take it you don’t want to know what happens to Bran?
OK, OK. I'll say it. You're a really cool guy. Nobody here doubts your real life popularity.

You're welcome. This is what you're after yeah? Whatever you need me to say I'll be the one to say it for you!

Bamaman
Also Receiving Votes
Posts: 9841
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Bamaman »

Spoiler
Kristen shot J.R..

User avatar
Woof
Swimming in the Jeopardy! Pool
Posts: 4226
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: James wouldn't have lost pre-James

Post by Woof »

Bamaman wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:45 pm
Spoiler
Kristen shot J.R..
Spoiler
Oswald shot JFK

Post Reply