2019 TOC Updates

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Linear Gnome
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Linear Gnome »

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:48 am
Can I also just say:

Looking at it from your own perspectives, what on earth would it do to your ToC preparation in the back of your head if all people were doing was talking about how you got invited and possibly even calling your ethics into question?

I'm incredibly disappointed in many people in this community this weekend.
In view of:
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:48 am
*grabs popcorn*
you anticipated that there would be some sort of discussion/controversy, so it must be the specifics that have surprised you in a negative way (I have not been following closely enough to know exactly what comments were removed).

Emma is enough of a student of the game to know that her invitation to the ToC would be a source of discussion. Based on what little I know about her, I'm guessing that she's the determined sort of person who would want to make darn sure that, win or lose, there would be absolutely no doubt that she had belonged there. And I'm 100% rooting for that.

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Golf »

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:48 am
Can I also just say:

Looking at it from your own perspectives, what on earth would it do to your ToC preparation in the back of your head if all people were doing was talking about how you got invited and possibly even calling your ethics into question?

I'm incredibly disappointed in many people in this community this weekend.
OK, here's how I would think about it if I were in her shoes.

Interesting, some random I've never met on the internet doesn't think I deserve an invitation to the ToC. Does he/she really think I give a crap? But it sure is going to be fun after the tourney airs and I kick ass to shove the result right up his/her butt.

Did you seriously think the opinions of a few people on one message board would affect the ToC preparation of one who has already been under a microscope after defeating one of the greatest champs of all time?

I hope those who deleted their own comments did so because they want to and not because they felt pressured into it. It's OK to stand up for what you believe in.

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This Is Kirk!
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by This Is Kirk! »

Robert K S wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:54 pm
However, as anyone who reads this thread can grasp, any such criticism is simply not applicable in the present instance, because at most Emma could have bumped one person, and that person will get a ToC berth.
How can you be sure? Just because they're eligible for the next ToC doesn't guarantee they will make it into the field.

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Ironhorse »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:35 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:54 pm
However, as anyone who reads this thread can grasp, any such criticism is simply not applicable in the present instance, because at most Emma could have bumped one person, and that person will get a ToC berth.
How can you be sure? Just because they're eligible for the next ToC doesn't guarantee they will make it into the field.
Maybe he means Ryan, who said TPTB guaranteed him a slot?
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Robert K S
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Robert K S »

No one has yet cogently explained why any "ethics" arguments are not moot. I suppose the best argument that can be made is that the bumped future contender will in turn be bumping a hopeful, but the removal starts to make the would-have-been guarantee tenuous. One extra Teachers Tournament or College Championship in an inter-ToC period (it happens), or one adjustment in ToC scheduling (fairly common nowadays), and the "guarantee" of otherwise being a qualifying quarterfinalist becomes no guarantee at all. Particularly when one has not won five games.

tldr; we are living in the best of all possible worlds. We get to see more Emma, and by accepting a ToC invite she hasn't reasonably disadvantaged anyone.

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by threearruda »

Looks as if the mystery of Jimmy's statement is solved - a tracker for the next ToC is live and with only two names on it. (This is what I expected, and I personally think some folks here and elsewhere were reading way too deeply into that awkwardly worded statement, but refrained from saying anything. You weren't wrong to be confused).

This also solves the big question I had: I assume this makes the 2019 cutoff date July 9 (date of Ryan Bilger's 4th win; he was eligible, but still champion and thus a "current contestant") instead of June 6 (Emma's loss). This takes into account Ryan's status as the 2019 alternate and E.J. Wolborsky's exclusion from the J! website's tracker (lost July 1).

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by JayK33 »

So Dave Leffler is out of contention? That sucks. Would he have been in the 2019 ToC had Emma not been invited or was that going to be Ryan regardless?

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by triviawayne »

JayK33 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:19 am
So Dave Leffler is out of contention? That sucks. Would he have been in the 2019 ToC had Emma not been invited or was that going to be Ryan regardless?
I haven't paid enough attention to this thread due to all the nonsense, but I need to ask on this part: if that one player hadn't died, would Dave have made the cut?
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by hbomb1947 »

JayK33 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:19 am
So Dave Leffler is out of contention? That sucks. Would he have been in the 2019 ToC had Emma not been invited or was that going to be Ryan regardless?
If they hadn't done the early cutoff to include Emma, Leffler would have missed the cut; he would have already been surpassed by Ryan and Sam.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Golf »

JayK33 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:19 am
So Dave Leffler is out of contention? That sucks. Would he have been in the 2019 ToC had Emma not been invited or was that going to be Ryan regardless?
hbomb1947 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:03 am
If they hadn't done the early cutoff to include Emma, Leffler would have missed the cut; he would have already been surpassed by Ryan and Sam.
Including Emma had nothing to do with an early cutoff as she was out of the running the day she lost.

So yes, it does suck that Dave Leffler is out of contention as he should have been #15 when the cutoff was made. Regardless, at least one player is getting royally screwed, Either in this ToC or the next one someone who deserved to be there will not, there is no way around that.

And that's not counting the six other players ahead of Emma in the ToC standings who she leapfrogged, they all deserve to be there more than her. In my opinion, this is just a terrible precedent to set. But Jeopardy has always played favorites for certain players regarding tournament invitations. Just not in the ToC however.

Note, when I say deserve, I mean solely by the standard metrics used for ToC inclusion.

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Volante »

Golf wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:30 pm
Note, when I say deserve, I mean solely by the standard metrics used for ToC inclusion.
*By the standard metrics we, the viewing public, have used.

Their game, their rules.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by triviawayne »

Volante wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:32 pm
Golf wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:30 pm
Note, when I say deserve, I mean solely by the standard metrics used for ToC inclusion.
*By the standard metrics we, the viewing public, have used.

Their game, their rules.
have they deviated from this "standard" in the past, other than for death of a contestant, running for public office, or involved in criminal charges?

It's not as if they put Nancy Zerg in the tournament to face Ken Jennings.

They have always said it is an invitational, so they can do what they want. Like any other game show, I suspect they make sure of that by using the words "at producer's discretion" when they need to, but then why have a tournament tracker on their website if there is no standard to apply to it?
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by seaborgium »

triviawayne wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:34 am
It's not as if they put Nancy Zerg in the tournament to face Ken Jennings.
Ken was never in a ToC

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by triviawayne »

seaborgium wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:21 am
triviawayne wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:34 am
It's not as if they put Nancy Zerg in the tournament to face Ken Jennings.
Ken was never in a ToC
and they didn't put her in that tournament just to face him
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by SBurrus »

I'm a little late posting to this thread (haven't been on the board in a couple of months) but this TOC field looks outstanding and the games should be exciting. I'm glad to see Emma in the field...but am hoping some of the 4-time champions who didn't make the field can be included in a future TOC. I want to see more of Jackie Fuchs.

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Ironhorse »

Here's my off the cuff, not at all accurate sortings (not intended to be ranked within each tier):

Gold - James, Josh, Eric, Kyle, Anneke

Silver - Emma, Francois, Lindsay, Rob, Gilbert

Bronze - Rachel, Dhruv, Alan, Ryan, Steven
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Robert K S »

Ironhorse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:15 pm
(not intended to be ranked within each tier):
Gold - James
Maybe with one exception?

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by hbomb1947 »

Robert K S wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:57 pm
Ironhorse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:15 pm
(not intended to be ranked within each tier):
Gold - James
Maybe with one exception?
James, as another poster has observed, is platinum.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by hanzz »

triviawayne wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:34 am
Volante wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:32 pm
Golf wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:30 pm
Note, when I say deserve, I mean solely by the standard metrics used for ToC inclusion.
*By the standard metrics we, the viewing public, have used.

Their game, their rules.
have they deviated from this "standard" in the past, other than for death of a contestant, running for public office, or involved in criminal charges?

It's not as if they put Nancy Zerg in the tournament to face Ken Jennings.

They have always said it is an invitational, so they can do what they want. Like any other game show, I suspect they make sure of that by using the words "at producer's discretion" when they need to, but then why have a tournament tracker on their website if there is no standard to apply to it?
One exception does not render the tracker worthless.

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Ironhorse »

For all the mentions of Nancy Zerg, does anybody seriously think the show would have brought back Emma had she won one game?

I think the timing of the cutoff has most to do to avoid a situation where Rachel and Emma are the only female contestants (as Ryan B. and Sam would have knocked Lindsay and Anneke off the tracker). From a ratings/viewer perspective, I think this is perfectly defensible and I would have made that call myself.
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