2019 TOC Updates

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morbeedo
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by morbeedo »

VoluptuousLoser wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:07 am
morbeedo wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:11 pm So they hated Emma for defeating James, and now they hate her for accepting an invite to the TOC. Got it!
So you believe that if you criticize an action someone takes, that means that you hate the person? I don't think Emma earned her position in the tournament on the merits, and I think she should have declined the invitation. I haven't expressed any animosity towards her.

And who are the straw men you're referencing here who purportedly "hate" Emma for both of these things?

The deletion of my prior posts on this subject makes no sense. What a joke.
Sorry, I wasn’t directing that comment at you. I was talking generally about the negative reception she got online for ending James’s run and now the controversy she’s facing for getting a bye into the tournament.
Last edited by morbeedo on Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by squarekara »

I'm still disappointed that Janet Waldo didn't get to voice Judy Jetson in the feature film, but I'm stating here and now that I don't blame Tiffany one bit.

The "meritocracy" has always been subject to the casting process, right? TPTB will do what's best for the success and longevity of the show. As far as I know, Emma never campaigned for the TOC, never declared she was entitled to participate. TPTB saw a chance to boost their ratings and get fans chattering months in advance of the TOC. Emma complied, and so did we. As hanzz mentioned, not many of us would keep Maggie waiting on the phone for an answer while we question her "ethics" and dictate our terms.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

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I think what's been rubbing me the wrong way about this whole discussion is that comments seem to operate under the assumption that various parties aren't here, which there is no evidence for. Not that there's necessarily evidence for the opposite, but this isn't like an MLB forum where you wouldn't expect Mike Trout to show up or a James Bond forum and get a post from Daniel Craig.

There's past contestants here already and it'd be nice to get more future ones on the regular roster. The way this has been going hasn't exactly been inviting.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by StevenH »

Okay, I have deleted my previous comments. The parts that were quoted should be deleted, too.

Sorry for the trouble.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Ironhorse »

Volante wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:31 pm I think what's been rubbing me the wrong way about this whole discussion is that comments seem to operate under the assumption that various parties aren't here, which there is no evidence for. Not that there's necessarily evidence for the opposite, but this isn't like an MLB forum where you wouldn't expect Mike Trout to show up or a James Bond forum and get a post from Daniel Craig.

There's past contestants here already and it'd be nice to get more future ones on the regular roster. The way this has been going hasn't exactly been inviting.
A majority of ToC contestants have been on Reddit, so this is likely.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Linear Gnome »

Just in case my previous post left any ambiguity, I think Emma had/has every right to accept the invitation from TPTB to participate in the ToC. None of the "uncomfortableness" I feel about the situation is directed at her. It's more a matter of feeling as if I thought I had understood the ground rules, but I really hadn't.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by twelvefootboy »

Another point of view - Emma cleared the machine gun nest that basically kept 66 people from even getting a whiff of a TOC invite. She is just getting to proxy for Lewis Black or one of the other players (I know there were a couple other good ones) that likely would have grabbed the next slot. If she hadn't won, there wouldn't even a TOC on the horizon.

Sorry if the details of this argument are flawed, but the argument is good based on the hypotheticals. James potentially could have had 200 notches on his belt according to some tracking model that was posted in some of the threads. Reward Emma for crying out loud!

Even more important - do what is best for the show. Nobody wins if the show slumps.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by JayK33 »

Is there a high chance they'd pair James and Emma in the same QF to make sure the rematch does in fact happen? There's no guarantee if they wait for a later round.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Robert K S »

JayK33 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am Is there a high chance they'd pair James and Emma in the same QF to make sure the rematch does in fact happen? There's no guarantee if they wait for a later round.
Always a chance, but I'm going to predict we'll see Emma in QF1 (whether that's a Monday or a Wednesday) and that we'll see James in the Thursday game (whether that's QF2 or QF4).
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by hbomb1947 »

JayK33 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am Is there a high chance they'd pair James and Emma in the same QF to make sure the rematch does in fact happen? There's no guarantee if they wait for a later round.
As I posted upthread, a pairing of James and Emma in the QF round is not, IMO, a good idea: "I don't think they would face off in quarters because it would be anticlimactic if one of them wins and the other still gets a wild-card . . . . [A]nother reason a quarterfinal matchup between James and Emma wouldn't have the flavor of a true rematch is that it's likely that the trailing player (or both of them, if they're both trailing their mutual opponent going into FJ) won't even go for the victory, but will wager to maximize the chance of getting a wild card."

The most likely scenario would seem to be a meeting in semifinals - assuming both players advance. James, at least, has about a 100% chance of emerging from quarterfinals with at least a wild card berth.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by threearruda »

Robert K S wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:44 am
Always a chance, but I'm going to predict we'll see Emma in QF1 (whether that's a Monday or a Wednesday) and that we'll see James in the Thursday game (whether that's QF2 or QF4).
No election year to work around, so I'd bet a standard two-week, Monday-Friday schedule will be followed this year, as was the case in 2015 and 2017.

JayK33 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am Is there a high chance they'd pair James and Emma in the same QF to make sure the rematch does in fact happen? There's no guarantee if they wait for a later round.
TL;DR: I don't think so. :lol:

To add on to HBomb's point above, trends also back up the case for not having the James/Emma matchup immediately. The "top seed" in each of the past six ToCs got to play a College/Teacher champ in the QF round, usually along with another 4x or 5x champ in the middle. This is why I'm picking James and Francois to play around midweek with Anneke (or Rachel or Lindsey) completing that trio.

Paul Nelson and Keith Whitener rematched in the semis in 2013, so this could happen with Emma/James. I would rather wait until the finals, but you are exactly right that there's no guarantee. If this is what the show hypes up, you will do what you can to make the matchup happen. OTOH, it's also worth mentioning that the show's more recent dream matchups, (Julia v. Arthur in 2014, Alex J. v. Matt in 2015 and Buzzy v. Austin in 2017, Team Ken v. Team Brad in 2019) have happened organically and in the finals. *shrug*
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by AndyTheQuizzer »

StevenH wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 pm Okay, I have deleted my previous comments. The parts that were quoted should be deleted, too.

Sorry for the trouble.
I think I've cleaned this up...?
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by AndyTheQuizzer »

Can I also just say:

Looking at it from your own perspectives, what on earth would it do to your ToC preparation in the back of your head if all people were doing was talking about how you got invited and possibly even calling your ethics into question?

I'm incredibly disappointed in many people in this community this weekend.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

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OntarioQuizzer wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:48 am Can I also just say:

Looking at it from your own perspectives, what on earth would it do to your ToC preparation in the back of your head if all people were doing was talking about how you got invited and possibly even calling your ethics into question?

I'm incredibly disappointed in many people in this community this weekend.
Well throw yourself on the pile then. Reportedly Emma spent years studying the show, wrote a thesis on it, took down arguably the most dominant champion of all time. But sure you should assume that she’s going to fail in her own preparation because Brian Fodera is being mean to her on the Internet. How about giving her more credit than that?
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by RobW »

threearruda wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:42 am
Robert K S wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:44 am
Always a chance, but I'm going to predict we'll see Emma in QF1 (whether that's a Monday or a Wednesday) and that we'll see James in the Thursday game (whether that's QF2 or QF4).
No election year to work around, so I'd bet a standard two-week, Monday-Friday schedule will be followed this year, as was the case in 2015 and 2017.
I bet you're right.
threearruda wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:42 am
JayK33 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am Is there a high chance they'd pair James and Emma in the same QF to make sure the rematch does in fact happen? There's no guarantee if they wait for a later round.
The "top seed" in each of the past six ToCs got to play a College/Teacher champ in the QF round, usually along with another 4x or 5x champ in the middle.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by MollyQMurphy »

I'm very pleased for Emma, and I can't think of anyone who would turn down the ToC invite. It's genuinely not up to the contestants.

I really think you have to look at the production picture. Whatever the 35th season prize money budget was for the show, James has to have blown out of the water. The Emma/James match was reportedly the single-most watched J! episode in 15+ years (true, partly because they free-streamed it). So from a marketing standpoint, a rematch has to be desirable, maybe even mandatory.

I almost think the leak of the results was a net plus for eyeballs. Hardly anybody didn't watch because it was spoiled, but how many millions made it must-see tv because they knew it would be worth the time?

And demographically, there was a lot of buzz, both positive and negative, about a female librarian beating a great-playing male gambler at his own newly revealed tactics, when he seemed invincible. It's a great narrative, all the better because it was unscripted, and carried into all major social media. People identified personally very strongly with one or the other. They are going to watch again.

I do think her very-credible 3 day run, as evaluated upthread, gives her enough legitimacy to be a reasonable invite. It's a close thing, and the statistics are better for others in evaluating selection. But with the caveat that those others are not closed out for future tournaments, it seems fair enough that they take advantage of public interest and hype the rematch this year.

Any result of the match up should further public discussion of it, whether James redeems himself or Emma proves it wasn't just a good day for her or whatever gets assigned to the competition. And the lead-up to it from that marketing angle, along with the ToC itself, should allow the show to raise its advertiser and/or syndication rates, which is good for all of us.

JMHO on all of this.
Pending...
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by squarekara »

jeff6286 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:00 am
OntarioQuizzer wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:48 am Can I also just say:

Looking at it from your own perspectives, what on earth would it do to your ToC preparation in the back of your head if all people were doing was talking about how you got invited and possibly even calling your ethics into question?

I'm incredibly disappointed in many people in this community this weekend.
Well throw yourself on the pile then. Reportedly Emma spent years studying the show, wrote a thesis on it, took down arguably the most dominant champion of all time. But sure you should assume that she’s going to fail in her own preparation because Brian Fodera is being mean to her on the Internet. How about giving her more credit than that?
It's not a matter of whether she can withstand the criticism. This forum shouldn't be a source of meanness.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

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MollyQMurphy wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:24 pm Any result of the match up should further public discussion of it, whether James redeems himself or Emma proves it wasn't just a good day for her or whatever gets assigned to the competition.
Emma's invitation to the TOC doesn't guarantee that a rematch will occur, although I hope the rematch happens. And if James does end up facing Emma, I hope the 3rd player in the match won't get overlooked.
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Re: 2019 TOC Updates

Post by Robert K S »

FWIW I don't think there is "meanness" involved in suggesting there are some unwritten ethical rules to accepting "unearned" invites ("unearned" by the historical standards). However, as anyone who reads this thread can grasp, any such criticism is simply not applicable in the present instance, because at most Emma could have bumped one person, and that person will get a ToC berth.
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