Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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hbomb1947
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 »

I'm guessing the uncovered $800 clue in the I.M. Pei buildings category would have involved the glass pyramid at the Louvre. What else could it have been at that dollar level?

ETA: Yet another "dulcet" here on the $600 "Speak Softly" clue. Poll request for that response.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

Lawrence Ferlinghetti is still alive, and turned 100 this year.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Ferlinghetti was definitely a YEKIOYD, but I think it's a reasonably well-known bit of trivia that he owns or owned the City Lights book shop in SF.
My twisted logic was, "Well, Ghirardelli is from there, and they're both Italian, so let's go with that." :)
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

econgator wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:10 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Ferlinghetti was definitely a YEKIOYD, but I think it's a reasonably well-known bit of trivia that he owns or owned the City Lights book shop in SF.
My twisted logic was, "Well, Ghirardelli is from there, and they're both Italian, so let's go with that." :)
Basically the same here. "Well, that sounds like Ghirardelli and that's as sound reason as anything else I've got..."
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by BigDaddyMatty »

This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Apparently what the clue was getting at is that you can call the state of Louisiana and they will "give you the name of a hunter" who can remove them pesky alligators...
Ohhhhhh. There we go. Thank you!
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

55 R (Missed Carrie $1000 and Black Rock.)
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woof »

econgator wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:10 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Ferlinghetti was definitely a YEKIOYD, but I think it's a reasonably well-known bit of trivia that he owns or owned the City Lights book shop in SF.
My twisted logic was, "Well, Ghirardelli is from there, and they're both Italian, so let's go with that." :)
And don't forget the Moscone Center, named after George Moscone, the other victim of Dan White's Twinkie rampage. There's also Scoma's and Alioto's to let you know about SF's proud Italian-American heritage.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by BigDaddyMatty »

Looking up Lawrence Ferlinghetti in the J-Archive, I found that the writers actually repeated a clue verbatim (verbotem?): here and here. I'm sure this is not the only such instance, but I believe it's the first I've seen of it.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by BigDaddyMatty »

Woof wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:49 pm
econgator wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:10 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Ferlinghetti was definitely a YEKIOYD, but I think it's a reasonably well-known bit of trivia that he owns or owned the City Lights book shop in SF.
My twisted logic was, "Well, Ghirardelli is from there, and they're both Italian, so let's go with that." :)
And don't forget the Moscone Center, named after George Moscone, the other victim of Dan White's Twinkie rampage. There's also Scoma's and Alioto's to let you know about SF's proud Italian-American heritage.
And Bank of America, founded in San Francisco, which was originally called the Bank of Italy.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

BigDaddyMatty wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:55 pm Looking up Lawrence Ferlinghetti in the J-Archive, I found that the writers actually repeated a clue verbatim (verbotem?): here and here. I'm sure this is not the only such instance, but I believe it's the first I've seen of it.
The 2008 repeat was because of the 2007–08 Writers Guild of America strike. I bet a substantial number of clues in that and the surrounding games are also verbatim repeats. Not sure what the excuse is in 2019. The Great Tetris Purge?
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

BigDaddyMatty wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:56 pm
Woof wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:49 pm
econgator wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:10 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Ferlinghetti was definitely a YEKIOYD, but I think it's a reasonably well-known bit of trivia that he owns or owned the City Lights book shop in SF.
My twisted logic was, "Well, Ghirardelli is from there, and they're both Italian, so let's go with that." :)
And don't forget the Moscone Center, named after George Moscone, the other victim of Dan White's Twinkie rampage. There's also Scoma's and Alioto's to let you know about SF's proud Italian-American heritage.
And Bank of America, founded in San Francisco, which was originally called the Bank of Italy.
Baseball's DiMaggio brothers are also from San Fran.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:00 pm
BigDaddyMatty wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:55 pm Looking up Lawrence Ferlinghetti in the J-Archive, I found that the writers actually repeated a clue verbatim (verbotem?): here and here. I'm sure this is not the only such instance, but I believe it's the first I've seen of it.
The 2008 repeat was because of the 2007–08 Writers Guild of America strike. I bet a substantial number of clues in that and the surrounding games are also verbatim repeats. Not sure what the excuse is in 2019. The Great Tetris Purge?
That article says specifically that the prime-time game show Duel was ordered because of the WGA strike, so I think game show/reality writers might be contractually considered different than scripted writers for, say, dramas and comedies. Can't claim to be an expert, though. I do remember that a special winter season of Big Brother was also produced during that strike. Also, I think some late night shows went on without monologues/sketches, because those required writers - but they had normal interviews.

J! does recycle clues, and has some clues that are basically the same with some minor word tweaking. But I've never seen the wording verbatim quite like those two you found, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were other instances in the J! archive. I don't think it's coincidence, but I don't think it's because of the WGA strike. Maybe a writer just said, "I want a clue on Ferlinghetti in this category - we can just recycle that one from 8 years ago." Could have been a backup - a sixth clue that got promoted due to a technical error.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

talkingaway wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:40 pmThat article says specifically that the prime-time game show Duel was ordered because of the WGA strike, so I think game show/reality writers might be contractually considered different than scripted writers for, say, dramas and comedies.
It's true that a lot of unscripted content was ordered by the networks during the strike. This article even interviews Harry Friedman about the trend. It may also be true that a startup trivia show may have been able to get away with hiring non-union writers. (I don't know whether that was the case for Duel; this other Wikipedia article says that that show was affected by the strike.) However, the Jeopardy! writers fought hard to be recognized as writers (as opposed to researchers, which is what they were called during the first season or two of the show--see Harry Eisenberg's exposé, which documents the battle to unionize extensively) and did go on strike with the rest of the WGA that season. I wish the old Sony board was still accessible because the effects of the strike were dissected on an almost daily basis on the board that year. My recollection is that not only were the writers not working during the strike, but that union rules prohibited producers from filling in as writers, and that boards for new games could not so much as be assembled during the strike. In the long lead-up to the strike there was a rush to assemble as much of a backlog of material as possible even if it meant stealing old clues to hurry the process along. Somehow, the recycled clues were well enough blended with new material and enough boards were generated to make it through the strike. I'm sure it was a tough time for the production, but they got through it with basically no impact to the show that would have been noticeable to the average viewer. Boardies, however, noticed well.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mrparadise »

BigDaddyMatty wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:55 pm Looking up Lawrence Ferlinghetti in the J-Archive, I found that the writers actually repeated a clue verbatim (verbotem?): here and here. I'm sure this is not the only such instance, but I believe it's the first I've seen of it.
That's not the only Poetry clue from the 11/20/2000 show they repeated verbatim in the 5/19/2008 show. They must have been on deadline! (A 1000 apologies but providing the links is a bridge too far!)
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

mrparadise wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:40 pmThat's not the only Poetry clue from the 11/20/2000 show they repeated verbatim in the 5/19/2008 show. They must have been on deadline!
Um
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cheezguyty »

talkingaway wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:40 pm J! does recycle clues, and has some clues that are basically the same with some minor word tweaking. But I've never seen the wording verbatim quite like those two you found, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were other instances in the J! archive. I don't think it's coincidence, but I don't think it's because of the WGA strike. Maybe a writer just said, "I want a clue on Ferlinghetti in this category - we can just recycle that one from 8 years ago." Could have been a backup - a sixth clue that got promoted due to a technical error.
There was at least one reused clue (and often more) in nearly every episode between April 7 and July 1, 2008. In particular, almost half of the material on the June 4 episode was recycled. All of the clues were originally from games between 1999 and 2002.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:13 pm
talkingaway wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:40 pmThat article says specifically that the prime-time game show Duel was ordered because of the WGA strike, so I think game show/reality writers might be contractually considered different than scripted writers for, say, dramas and comedies.
It's true that a lot of unscripted content was ordered by the networks during the strike. This article even interviews Harry Friedman about the trend. It may also be true that a startup trivia show may have been able to get away with hiring non-union writers. (I don't know whether that was the case for Duel; this other Wikipedia article says that that show was affected by the strike.) However, the Jeopardy! writers fought hard to be recognized as writers (as opposed to researchers, which is what they were called during the first season or two of the show--see Harry Eisenberg's exposé, which documents the battle to unionize extensively) and did go on strike with the rest of the WGA that season. I wish the old Sony board was still accessible because the effects of the strike were dissected on an almost daily basis on the board that year. My recollection is that not only were the writers not working during the strike, but that union rules prohibited producers from filling in as writers, and that boards for new games could not so much as be assembled during the strike. In the long lead-up to the strike there was a rush to assemble as much of a backlog of material as possible even if it meant stealing old clues to hurry the process along. Somehow, the recycled clues were well enough blended with new material and enough boards were generated to make it through the strike. I'm sure it was a tough time for the production, but they got through it with basically no impact to the show that would have been noticeable to the average viewer. Boardies, however, noticed well.
Thanks for the info - it makes sense that J! would be different than, say, a reality show like Big Brother where there's virtually no writing. I can see the argument easily, since J! clues are not just straight trivia facts - many of them have a quirky "style" to them, and the FJ! questions in particular must be tough to craft. If a late night monologue is considered "writing" under the WGA's contract, then certainly so must the 61 questions on J!.

I didn't know about the self-pilfered questions during the strike, as I'm just now reintroducing myself to J!. Let's say that I watched it when it first came on, I was fascinated by the fact that numbers could be negative. It faded until I got a trivia itch this summer.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph »

econgator wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:10 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm Ferlinghetti was definitely a YEKIOYD, but I think it's a reasonably well-known bit of trivia that he owns or owned the City Lights book shop in SF.
My twisted logic was, "Well, Ghirardelli is from there, and they're both Italian, so let's go with that." :)
At first reading this I assumed Ghirardelli was a beat poet.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant »

So many topics to touch on...

FJ - Know enough chemistry to recognize sodium as NA. Don't know enough to know what goes into a citrate. Figured the right response would be something with melted cheese. But that's as far as I got. So I start the week with a miss.

Dulcet - I answered "hushed". Dulcet certainly fits the clue - dulcet tones is an example in the definition of dulcet in the MW online dictionary. Does it have to fit the category, too? I don't know enough about J! rules to answer that one.

Poets? Not happening for me. 5 clues for me to keep clam.

Pei DD: I'm not going to criticize Susan for her wager there. Clearly, that was the least desirable category for everyone. Yes, if you are really weak in the category, a $5 wager is the right one. I suspect she got it right more from the JFK side than the Pei side.

Writers strike - I believe the longest currently running TV show that is not a soap opera came about because of that strike. Someone needed an unscripted show and tried throwing a cameraman in the back seat of a police car.

Almost forgot - animals:
I got hooked on a short-running TV show called Gator Boys. 4 foot reptiles, in a bayou, that are trapped, and can be called a nuisance? That's the entire premise of the show. I knew that one before Alex finished reading.
Rodents? Unusual size? Pelts? Yep. That's a Nutria. Also known as a Water Rat or Coypu. Recently featured in discussions here (I think) as a wrong answer for Capybara.
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Re: Monday, October 14, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

Peter the accountant wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:55 pm Rodents? Unusual size? Pelts? Yep. That's a Nutria. Also known as a Water Rat or Coypu. Recently featured in discussions here (I think) as a wrong answer for Capybara.
Considering how extensively I study animals, I'm surprised that I have never heard of a nutria before. "Blah blah big rodent blah blah pelt" still seems like ENORMOUS negbait to "beaver" for me.
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