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Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:02 pm
by alietr
They could have made the FJ at least a little bit challenging by asking for the island group instead of the two countries. That made it way too easy for a TOC FJ in my book.

You used to be able to get abalone in restaurants in California, but I think nowadays the only way to have it is to catch it yourself (gotta keep those cute little otters well fed). All I know is that it was soooo delicious the few times I managed to get it. I had no idea it was a snail. I assumed it was like a clam or oyster.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:07 pm
by hbomb1947
This was a coronation, and cements James's legacy and fortifies his claim to GOAT status. Emma is a phenomenal player who really put up a tremendous fight and just refused to quit or get rattled; and at age 27, her best J! days (in future supertourneys) may still be ahead of her. Defeating her, and Francois - who had been a steamroller himself during the first 2 rounds of the tournament, and earned left-lectern status for the final round - was most impressive. I felt bad for Francois, relegated to bystander status by the 2 titans he was standing next to. That James was able to hold on despite an uncharacteristic forget-the-category miss on a relatively easy DD is a testament to his greatness. As usual, even in this 2nd game that he superficially "lost" to Emma, he dominated in Coryat and buzzing.

And I suck because I was going to go with Japan and USSR (which I assume would have been accepted in lieu of Russia), but second-guessed myself and changed USSR to Korea. Which doesn't make sense, if you think about WW II.

I love, love, love before, during, during, and after categories, although I only got the $2,000 one right in this game.

Now I have to go to the archive and calculate how much I'll be donating to the Lustgarten Foundation.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
by Woppy T
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:13 pm
by Linear Gnome
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
That was my first reaction, but it could be argued that specifying *what* about the liquor is being measured is being more specific. Those units do not measure the liquor's proof, or mass, or density, or color, or duration of aging: they measure the liquor's volume.

Excellent end to an excellent tournament. Hoping to see Ken, Brad, and James face off at some point.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:13 pm
by CasketRomance
alietr wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:02 pm
They could have made the FJ at least a little bit challenging by asking for the island group instead of the two countries. That made it way too easy for a TOC FJ in my book.

You used to be able to get abalone in restaurants in California, but I think nowadays the only way to have it is to catch it yourself (gotta keep those cute little otters well fed). All I know is that it was soooo delicious the few times I managed to get it. I had no idea it was a snail. I assumed it was like a clam or oyster.
had it in south korea...wasn't all that impressed...seemed like overpriced bland stuff...didn't pay for it...was at a company dinner...wish they would have just given me the money they spent on it and i could have gone to a chicken joint and had money left over to hit the bars after

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm
by gnash
Woppy T wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?
Not normal usage, but there's no reason a volume measure couldn't be applied to the volume of anything.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:28 pm
by jeff6286
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?
Not normal usage, but there's no reason a volume measure couldn't be applied to the volume of anything.

A peck is specifically a unit of dry volume so I'm not sure it is right to say it can be used for anything liquid. At first I thought James got a raw deal on that clue but looking back at the inclusion of peck, I think a neg would be justified and the BMS was maybe even overly generous.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:03 pm
by twelvefootboy
jeff6286 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:28 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?
Not normal usage, but there's no reason a volume measure couldn't be applied to the volume of anything.

A peck is specifically a unit of dry volume so I'm not sure it is right to say it can be used for anything liquid. At first I thought James got a raw deal on that clue but looking back at the inclusion of peck, I think a neg would be justified and the BMS was maybe even overly generous.
I think the peck definitely disclaims any liquid and the barrel and fifth examples were accidental negbait that would likely be avoided if you PLAY CATEGORIES IN ORDER. It was a nice category once you got the drift. I would like to have seen some pressure units, since we just mentioned them, but they are not too clue friendly.

At least we had some suspense at the end thanks to James' neg on DD3. Congrats to all.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:11 pm
by gnash
jeff6286 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:28 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?
Not normal usage, but there's no reason a volume measure couldn't be applied to the volume of anything.

A peck is specifically a unit of dry volume so I'm not sure it is right to say it can be used for anything liquid. At first I thought James got a raw deal on that clue but looking back at the inclusion of peck, I think a neg would be justified and the BMS was maybe even overly generous.
That's usage, a point already agreed on. "Dry volume" isn't a thing in any sense other than usage.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:57 pm
by jeff6286
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:11 pm
jeff6286 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:28 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm


Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?
Not normal usage, but there's no reason a volume measure couldn't be applied to the volume of anything.

A peck is specifically a unit of dry volume so I'm not sure it is right to say it can be used for anything liquid. At first I thought James got a raw deal on that clue but looking back at the inclusion of peck, I think a neg would be justified and the BMS was maybe even overly generous.
That's usage, a point already agreed on. "Dry volume" isn't a thing in any sense other than usage.
It's literally the definition of the term. It's a unit of dry volume. I'm not sure I get your point about usage.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm
by BigDaddyMatty
Coryat: 22,200
39 R/4 W
DD: 2/3
FJ: :(
LT: (none)

I can't believe I'm the first person in this thread to point out how bad Emma's FJ! wager was. Between yesterday's show and today's first two rounds, James accumulated a total of $67,111. Had Emma gone all in, she could have gotten to $69,600, which would have forced James to get FJ! correct. Instead, she pulled up short, ending up at a nice, round number that gave her zero chance of winning the tournament. Imagine the conspiracy theory posts on Twitter and Facebook had James missed FJ!

I completely blanked on Wally Cleaver's name. Between that and talking myself out of Captain Kangaroo on LL yesterday (how can you have a popular kids' show at an hour when children are already starting school?), it hasn't been a great couple of days for me and classic TV.

I also botched FJ!, thinking only of China and South Korea and never even considering Russia/USSR. Between that and four bottom-row negs(!), it's safe to say I would not have been competitive in this final.
twelvefootboy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:03 pm
I think the peck definitely disclaims any liquid and the barrel and fifth examples were accidental negbait that would likely be avoided if you PLAY CATEGORIES IN ORDER.
This. Though I think Alex should have given a bit of explanation before the round started, the real confusion came about because this was the first clue played in the category. I agree that BMS--BLS, really--wasn't a perfect tool here, but I don't know what else Alex and the judges could have done.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:13 pm
by Category 13
I knew James had clinched it when his wager was revealed.
Emma looked like she was surprised when her grand total came up short. In reality, she hadn't wagered enough to top a zero wager from James.
James put himself at extra risk with his habitual cute wager, which was some 7,300 more than necessary to lock out Emma.

Re: Emma's Final Wager

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:25 pm
by Category 13
BigDaddyMatty beat me to it, while I was composing my post about Emma's FJ wager.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 pm
by seaborgium
BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm
I can't believe I'm the first person in this thread to point out how bad Emma's FJ! wager was. Between yesterday's show and today's first two rounds, James accumulated a total of $67,111. Had Emma gone all in, she could have gotten to $69,600, which would have forced James to get FJ! correct. Instead, she pulled up short, ending up at a nice, round number that gave her zero chance of winning the tournament. Imagine the conspiracy theory posts on Twitter and Facebook had James missed FJ!
You're wrong. Even if James hadn't overwagered, Emma wagered enough to beat him if she got FJ right and he didn't.
Category 13 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:25 pm
BigDaddyMatty beat me to it, while I was composing my post about Emma's FJ wager.
You made a correct claim at least; Emma indeed didn't wager to surpass James's score, but there was no reason to expect James not to cover.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:34 pm
by BigDaddyMatty
seaborgium wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 pm
BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm
I can't believe I'm the first person in this thread to point out how bad Emma's FJ! wager was. Between yesterday's show and today's first two rounds, James accumulated a total of $67,111. Had Emma gone all in, she could have gotten to $69,600, which would have forced James to get FJ! correct. Instead, she pulled up short, ending up at a nice, round number that gave her zero chance of winning the tournament. Imagine the conspiracy theory posts on Twitter and Facebook had James missed FJ!
You're wrong. Even if James hadn't overwagered, Emma wagered enough to beat him if she got FJ right and he didn't.
Oh, you're right. It was basically a crush situation. Emma's wager assumed a cover wager and a miss by James. I do think she should have gone all in, just in case James got tricky and stood pat, but it's not the catastrophically bad wager I originally thought it was.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:53 pm
by Category 13
seaborgium wrote: You made a correct claim at least; Emma indeed didn't wager to surpass James's score, but there was no reason to expect James not to cover.
Indeed, James was compelled to wager. But why did he overbet so much? He is so compulsive about his special 'Date' wagers that he wanted to correct the amount ending in '85', which was a result of his miss on the last DD. Had he not uncovered any DDs, he surely would have wagered something to end up with one of his pet numbers for the day's total.
But to modify what BigDaddy posted; Imagine the conspiracy theory posts on Twitter and Facebook if James had missed FJ and wagered zero.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:59 pm
by MollyQMurphy
morbeedo wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:56 pm
I got Regency after a bit. Not sure but they might’ve buzzed me.

Weak clue for FJ! Clearly Japan is one country and Russia is a fairly straight shot. No magic there. No pizazz!

I appreciate the harder material and intensity of play in the tournaments, but I’m glad this one is over. Next!

Born yesterday comes up again in recent Jeopardy! history, so I better look that one up.
Better than looking it up, get yourself a nice glass of something and time to relax, and watch the movie. It's great fun. Even the remake was watchable, with (I think) Don Johnson, Melanie Griffith, and John Goodman. But Judy Holliday in the original is remarkable.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:02 am
by MollyQMurphy
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
gnash wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm
"Liquor" BMSes to volume?
Why not, and what else to do? It would be hard to justify deeming "liquor" wrong. Technically, a more helpful prompt would have been "be more general", but that would have given away too much.
A peck of liquor?
Not normal usage, but there's no reason a volume measure couldn't be applied to the volume of anything.
Another example of a clue that seemed obtuse when chosen first, but probably very get-able if the category is run top to bottom. (As designed)

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:19 am
by econgator
BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm
I can't believe I'm the first person in this thread to point out how bad Emma's FJ! wager was.
I actually did earlier, but then I redid the numbers, realized I was wrong, and deleted my post.

Re: Friday, November 15, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:20 am
by seaborgium
BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:34 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 pm
BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm
I can't believe I'm the first person in this thread to point out how bad Emma's FJ! wager was. Between yesterday's show and today's first two rounds, James accumulated a total of $67,111. Had Emma gone all in, she could have gotten to $69,600, which would have forced James to get FJ! correct. Instead, she pulled up short, ending up at a nice, round number that gave her zero chance of winning the tournament. Imagine the conspiracy theory posts on Twitter and Facebook had James missed FJ!
You're wrong. Even if James hadn't overwagered, Emma wagered enough to beat him if she got FJ right and he didn't.
Oh, you're right. It was basically a crush situation. Emma's wager assumed a cover wager and a miss by James. I do think she should have gone all in, just in case James got tricky and stood pat, but it's not the catastrophically bad wager I originally thought it was.
I'm sorry for being blunt in my first sentence replying to you.