Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by silverpie » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm

econgator wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:37 pm
brick wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm
If it had been a DD and I HAD to answer... that's what I'd have been forced to say, for want of not knowing the name of another position! Would NEVER have rung in.
Not too many to remember: goalie, center, defenseman, wing (left and right).
And “forward”, a collective term for centres and wings.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OrangeSAM » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:00 am

silverpie wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm
econgator wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:37 pm
brick wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm
If it had been a DD and I HAD to answer... that's what I'd have been forced to say, for want of not knowing the name of another position! Would NEVER have rung in.
Not too many to remember: goalie, center, defenseman, wing (left and right).
And “forward”, a collective term for centres and wings.
It should also be noted that there are generally two defensemen on the ice, making six on each side in regulation barring penalties. In overtime during the regular season, each team has a goalie and three skaters at even strength.
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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:15 am

silverpie wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm
econgator wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:37 pm
brick wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm
If it had been a DD and I HAD to answer... that's what I'd have been forced to say, for want of not knowing the name of another position! Would NEVER have rung in.
Not too many to remember: goalie, center, defenseman, wing (left and right).
And “forward”, a collective term for centres and wings.
This is the kind of shenanigans I thought would happen. Never a simple answer with sports!

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Budphrey » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:38 am

Regarding the Church of the Nativity clue weirdness: In a private forum, several people who were in the studio at the time have related that TPTB stopped tape and substituted a different clue, which Jack got. The game went on from there. That at least explains why, after the break, Katie's score was no longer missing the $200 she lost when "Palestine" was ruled incorrect, while Jack's stayed the same.

What remains a mystery is why they left the original clue and responses in the version of the show that got aired.
Poo-tee-weet? So it goes.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:54 am

Did anyone say what the substitute clue was?

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:26 am

Bamaman wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:54 am
Did anyone say what the substitute clue was?
Yes.

Oh, you want to know the topic of the clue? Our Lady of Guadalupe.

In the series of posts on the subject someone also brought up how the Sagrada Familia clue wanting Spain could bring up Catalonia issues.

The next time Michele Loud rang her cowbell after the Friday game I would think the staff had a discussion about it all.

For show purposes it helps that that one clue was not going to make a difference in the game overall.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:16 am

silverpie wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm
econgator wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:37 pm
brick wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm
If it had been a DD and I HAD to answer... that's what I'd have been forced to say, for want of not knowing the name of another position! Would NEVER have rung in.
Not too many to remember: goalie, center, defenseman, wing (left and right).
And “forward”, a collective term for centres and wings.
In fact, if you're matching player to position, usually defenseman, goaile, and forward are probably going to be sufficient unless they add something really obvious or wordplayish to the clue - like "Alex Ovechkin and a progressive are both this". There are quite a few NHL players who can regularly play center and wing, depending on which line they're on, or who happens to be injured. Even a clue as innocuous as "This hockey position takes faceoffs" can be unnecessarily tricky - typically for the first faceoff violation, the "punishment" is that the center is tossed out, and a winger takes the faceoff instead.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:39 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:26 am
Bamaman wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:54 am
Did anyone say what the substitute clue was?
Yes.

Oh, you want to know the topic of the clue? Our Lady of Guadalupe.

In the series of posts on the subject someone also brought up how the Sagrada Familia clue wanting Spain could bring up Catalonia issues.

The next time Michele Loud rang her cowbell after the Friday game I would think the staff had a discussion about it all.

For show purposes it helps that that one clue was not going to make a difference in the game overall.
Also helped that Jack got both Israel and
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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Rackme32 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:09 pm

trainman wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:49 pm
DBear wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:55 pm
Fogey is spelled wrong by the writers.
Merriam-Webster approves of the "fogy" spelling. (In fact, they say "fogey" is a less common variant.)
So does the Scrabble dictionary, and same for all the other online dictionaries I looked at. Still doesn't look right to me, but I've used that word many times in games since I saw it played against me that way... Always saw it spelled "fogey" until I started playing online Scrabble and Words With Friends some 10-12 years ago.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:11 pm

Budphrey wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:38 am
Regarding the Church of the Nativity clue weirdness: In a private forum, several people who were in the studio at the time have related that TPTB stopped tape and substituted a different clue, which Jack got. The game went on from there. That at least explains why, after the break, Katie's score was no longer missing the $200 she lost when "Palestine" was ruled incorrect, while Jack's stayed the same.

What remains a mystery is why they left the original clue and responses in the version of the show that got aired.
This would suggest that something went awry in the editing room (it would explain why no Trebek explanation was given - the show assumed that the edit would include the new clue that was put in, not the clue that was thrown out).

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:17 pm

hansenkd wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:04 am
A Wray wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 am
Robert K S wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:30 pm
Ironhorse wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:28 pm
so I'm just guessing TPTB cut out the explanation because they didn't want to touch that issue with a ten foot pole.
You'da thunk it would have been foreseeable enough to just scrap the clue if the politics was going to be an issue. It's not like they don't consider alternate correct responses for all of these clues.
Agreed completely. How on earth did that clue make it to air? You're effectively forcing the contestants to take sides on one of the most inflammatory issues in the world. I'm afraid they're going to have to address it eventually.
I don't see how they can't address it. It looks like Katie already did on Twitter. An account that appears to be her, but has been fairly inactive, tweeted an article about U.S. policy in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that was definitely pro-Palestinian. Further research shows that somebody named Katie Needle is a member of democratic socialist and feminist organizations in New York. You can also find video of her posing a question about Planned Parenthood at a CNN Town Hall with then HHS secretary Tom Price.

So by allowing that clue in and deeming that answer incorrect (and also deeming Israel correct), they have inadvertently stoked interest in, and essentially outed, their champion's political leanings. That clue in that category was just not OK, and I have to wonder if somebody in the writers room was trying to sneak in their own political views.

The fact is that had "Palestine" been ruled on air as correct, there would have been just as much Twitter outrage from the other side. And they surely weren't looking for a correct response such as "What is the disputed territory formerly known as the West Bank?" Bad, bad, inexcusable clue. Somebody from the show needs to make an explanation, and Katie deserves an apology for being placed in that position. On the other hand, she didn't have to ring in and expose her own politics either. She could have just sat on her buzzer as the $200 was unlikely to matter.

This was just a bad moment for the show. The whole category was problematic. Even though Barcelona is factually in Spain, the recent prominence of the Catalan independence movement makes even that clue politically fraught. Ultimately, they would have been better off asking for cities instead of countries. A response of "Bethlehem" would not have been controversial in the least.
I tend to doubt that Katie cares if one knows her political leanings if one could find out info about her leanings through Google searches and what not.

As for her answer being an attempt to show off her political leanings, that is a stretch IMHO. Contrary to what many people seem to think in today’s world, not every action we take is an attempt to show which way we lean politically.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:45 pm

talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:08 pm
While I think people may refer to "penalty minutes" as "penalties", that's definitely too informal. Isn't Alex Saved from checking the "dunce box" in FJ! by today's significantly easier clue. Ayatollah's in Iran? Russians in Afghanastan? (Oh, and what comes after that? Hint: It has to do with changing keys.)
While the ongoing political discussion is, indeed, quite gripping, I'll bite and ask what "Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide" has to do with changing keys?
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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:50 pm

yclept wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:17 pm
hansenkd wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:04 am
A Wray wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 am
Robert K S wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:30 pm
Ironhorse wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:28 pm
so I'm just guessing TPTB cut out the explanation because they didn't want to touch that issue with a ten foot pole.
You'da thunk it would have been foreseeable enough to just scrap the clue if the politics was going to be an issue. It's not like they don't consider alternate correct responses for all of these clues.
Agreed completely. How on earth did that clue make it to air? You're effectively forcing the contestants to take sides on one of the most inflammatory issues in the world. I'm afraid they're going to have to address it eventually.
I don't see how they can't address it. It looks like Katie already did on Twitter. An account that appears to be her, but has been fairly inactive, tweeted an article about U.S. policy in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that was definitely pro-Palestinian. Further research shows that somebody named Katie Needle is a member of democratic socialist and feminist organizations in New York. You can also find video of her posing a question about Planned Parenthood at a CNN Town Hall with then HHS secretary Tom Price.

So by allowing that clue in and deeming that answer incorrect (and also deeming Israel correct), they have inadvertently stoked interest in, and essentially outed, their champion's political leanings. That clue in that category was just not OK, and I have to wonder if somebody in the writers room was trying to sneak in their own political views.

The fact is that had "Palestine" been ruled on air as correct, there would have been just as much Twitter outrage from the other side. And they surely weren't looking for a correct response such as "What is the disputed territory formerly known as the West Bank?" Bad, bad, inexcusable clue. Somebody from the show needs to make an explanation, and Katie deserves an apology for being placed in that position. On the other hand, she didn't have to ring in and expose her own politics either. She could have just sat on her buzzer as the $200 was unlikely to matter.

This was just a bad moment for the show. The whole category was problematic. Even though Barcelona is factually in Spain, the recent prominence of the Catalan independence movement makes even that clue politically fraught. Ultimately, they would have been better off asking for cities instead of countries. A response of "Bethlehem" would not have been controversial in the least.
I tend to doubt that Katie cares if one knows her political leanings if one could find out info about her leanings through Google searches and what not.

As for her answer being an attempt to show off her political leanings, that is a stretch IMHO. Contrary to what many people seem to think in today’s world, not every action we take is an attempt to show which way we lean politically.
Katie speaking on a different issue: https://twitter.com/capaction/status/84 ... 49?lang=en

For the church clue how about adding in that Katie recently visited the site?

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:33 pm

ParrotRob wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:45 pm
talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:08 pm
While I think people may refer to "penalty minutes" as "penalties", that's definitely too informal. Isn't Alex Saved from checking the "dunce box" in FJ! by today's significantly easier clue. Ayatollah's in Iran? Russians in Afghanastan? (Oh, and what comes after that? Hint: It has to do with changing keys.)
While the ongoing political discussion is, indeed, quite gripping, I'll bite and ask what "Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide" has to do with changing keys?
Musical key, I'm guessing. Although from what to what, I have no clue.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:03 pm

ParrotRob wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:45 pm
talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:08 pm
While I think people may refer to "penalty minutes" as "penalties", that's definitely too informal. Isn't Alex Saved from checking the "dunce box" in FJ! by today's significantly easier clue. Ayatollah's in Iran? Russians in Afghanastan? (Oh, and what comes after that? Hint: It has to do with changing keys.)
While the ongoing political discussion is, indeed, quite gripping, I'll bite and ask what "Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide" has to do with changing keys?
The original (and best) theme...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf37Dgj92QM

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hansenkd » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:11 am

yclept wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:11 pm
Budphrey wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:38 am
Regarding the Church of the Nativity clue weirdness: In a private forum, several people who were in the studio at the time have related that TPTB stopped tape and substituted a different clue, which Jack got. The game went on from there. That at least explains why, after the break, Katie's score was no longer missing the $200 she lost when "Palestine" was ruled incorrect, while Jack's stayed the same.

What remains a mystery is why they left the original clue and responses in the version of the show that got aired.
This would suggest that something went awry in the editing room (it would explain why no Trebek explanation was given - the show assumed that the edit would include the new clue that was put in, not the clue that was thrown out).
Alek confirmed the events on Reddit. So there were two major blunders. The first was that the original clue got through in the first place. The second was that the "fix" was not edited in and somehow nobody caught this. Radio silence from anyone connected to the show. The subject is trending in many places and spreading well beyond the Jeopardy! diehard fan base. Jack has received some unfair hatred for giving that answer ("Look at how the white guy gave the Zionist answer!"--even though at that point it was a WECIB rebound).

If TPTB think this is just going away, it isn't. I fully expect some sort of verbal or nonverbal statement before Monday's show airs. I guess my question is how does this happen? How could the "fixed" version not have been what actually aired? Which would have spared us from all of this.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:35 am

And so what happens if TPTB don’t comment on this? Are you going to stop watching? According to the reddit thread, this episode was taped October 23, so we likely won’t see any comment by Alex on Monday’s episode.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:17 am

Bamaman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:35 am
And so what happens if TPTB don’t comment on this? Are you going to stop watching? According to the reddit thread, this episode was taped October 23, so we likely won’t see any comment by Alex on Monday’s episode.
I agree. I think this WILL "just go away". While it IS a really big deal to some, my guess is it's a very small segment of their viewership and the vast majority, for better or for worse, aren't bothered by it.
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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hansenkd » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:39 am

ParrotRob wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:17 am
Bamaman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:35 am
And so what happens if TPTB don’t comment on this? Are you going to stop watching? According to the reddit thread, this episode was taped October 23, so we likely won’t see any comment by Alex on Monday’s episode.
I agree. I think this WILL "just go away". While it IS a really big deal to some, my guess is it's a very small segment of their viewership and the vast majority, for better or for worse, aren't bothered by it.
No less an outlet than the Washington Post picked it up this morning. On the clue itself, there actually is no answer. "Palestine" is not indisputably correct if a "country" is being asked for (not recognized as one by the U.S., where the show is produced), and "Israel" is factually incorrect if international recognition is key (no nation recognizes the West Bank as being part of Israel). That's a problem without the politics, but one that usually can be just fixed and ignored. Add in the politics and...look, I really don't have a dog in the fight as far as the conflict goes. But I hate to see the show get negative attention for this. Of course I will keep watching. I'm not offended by either answer, just the fact that a major blunder is being hand waved when now major media outlets (not just the social media mob) are picking up the story. Obviously the corrected version should have been edited in. For some unfathomable reason, it was not.

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Re: Friday, January 10, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:04 am

hansenkd wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:39 am
ParrotRob wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:17 am
Bamaman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:35 am
And so what happens if TPTB don’t comment on this? Are you going to stop watching? According to the reddit thread, this episode was taped October 23, so we likely won’t see any comment by Alex on Monday’s episode.
I agree. I think this WILL "just go away". While it IS a really big deal to some, my guess is it's a very small segment of their viewership and the vast majority, for better or for worse, aren't bothered by it.
No less an outlet than the Washington Post picked it up this morning. On the clue itself, there actually is no answer. Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" is indisputably correct if a "country" is being asked for. That's a problem without the politics, but one that usually can be just fixed and ignored. Add in the politics and...look, I really don't have a dog in the fight as far as the conflict goes. But I hate to see the show get negative attention for this. Of course I will keep watching. I'm not offended by either answer, just the fact that a major blunder is being hand waved when now major media outlets (not just the social media mob) are picking up the story. Obviously the corrected version should have been edited in. For some unfathomable reason, it was not.
I don't have a dog in the fight either, but I still think it's only going to be controversial for about five minutes and fall off the face of the Earth by the end of the week. In today's society, literally everything outrages some group or another, and I just don't think the group that is outraged by this is large enough for it to survive more than a few days. Remember how outraged everyone was over the Peloton sexist commercials just one month ago? Yeah, me neither.
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