GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

If anyone has a link to where I can watch this one, please message me. My recorder screwed up. (And please, obviously, do not mention the outcome.)

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:32 am
The other solution would have been to do it live.
I’d love that, but I’ve heard that they spend 15-20 minutes sometimes with contestants’ backs to the board before finally adjudicating. Sports refereeing has a constant tension: Get it right or get it done. People complain about “lengthy” delays in hockey; I’d rather J! Be taped and edited to perfection.

Same-day editing may work, but one double game per day may be wasteful of J!’s resources and relatively tight budget. Plus, they’re west coast, so they already lose three hours and would have to be done by 5 PM.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

talkingaway wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:11 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:32 am
The other solution would have been to do it live.
I’d love that, but I’ve heard that they spend 15-20 minutes sometimes with contestants’ backs to the board before finally adjudicating. Sports refereeing has a constant tension: Get it right or get it done. People complain about “lengthy” delays in hockey; I’d rather J! Be taped and edited to perfection.

Same-day editing may work, but one double game per day may be wasteful of J!’s resources and relatively tight budget. Plus, they’re west coast, so they already lose three hours and would have to be done by 5 PM.
These are valid points, but don't really change the fact that the games could have been done live. Yes, there'd need to be quick adjudication. Yes, they'd need to pay out some overtime to the crew, but it could be done and then there'd be no chance of leaks or other spoilers, plus we'd get to see the action as it's happening.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:37 pm
talkingaway wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:11 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:32 am
The other solution would have been to do it live.
I’d love that, but I’ve heard that they spend 15-20 minutes sometimes with contestants’ backs to the board before finally adjudicating. Sports refereeing has a constant tension: Get it right or get it done. People complain about “lengthy” delays in hockey; I’d rather J! Be taped and edited to perfection.

Same-day editing may work, but one double game per day may be wasteful of J!’s resources and relatively tight budget. Plus, they’re west coast, so they already lose three hours and would have to be done by 5 PM.
These are valid points, but don't really change the fact that the games could have been done live. Yes, there'd need to be quick adjudication. Yes, they'd need to pay out some overtime to the crew, but it could be done and then there'd be no chance of leaks or other spoilers, plus we'd get to see the action as it's happening.
A more valid point - just south of 14 million viewers watched the show(s). Possibly 14,000 of them noticed the listings and did the math. Possibly 1400 of them cared about being spoiled. OK, that's three points. Increase my guestimates by 10X, and it still isn't worth the hoop jumping for a 0.01% geek demographic who will watch anyway. :lol:

It sucks to be spoiled, but you have to control it and get into your protective, off the grid bubble and it's mostly on you.
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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

I've been to enough tapings to know that there's no way to do it live. Way too many things go wrong in a typical taping that take time to resolve.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

alietr wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:05 pm
I've been to enough tapings to know that there's no way to do it live. Way too many things go wrong in a typical taping that take time to resolve.
Never been to a taping of a game show, but I have seen the movie “Game Show”, and S&P is absolutely critical - nobody wants a game show scandal part deux. I definitely could see it taking awhile. I’ve only been to a double taping of Colbert, and I don’t think he needed a single redo. Then again, his show isn’t one where 75% of the on screen “talent” is (usually) relatively new to TV or pumped full of adrenaline.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

twelvefootboy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:07 pm

A more valid point - just south of 14 million viewers watched the show(s). Possibly 14,000 of them noticed the listings and did the math. Possibly 1400 of them cared about being spoiled. OK, that's three points. Increase my guestimates by 10X, and it still isn't worth the hoop jumping for a 0.01% geek demographic who will watch anyway. :lol:

It sucks to be spoiled, but you have to control it and get into your protective, off the grid bubble and it's mostly on you.
That's only a small part of why to do it live. I just think it would make it more exciting. Just think about sporting events. Even if you aren't spoiled it just loses something to watch something when you know it's already over with.

I think those saying it couldn't be done live are being influenced by the fact that it hasn't been done live. With the current format they've got time to fix errors, but that doesn't mean they really have to. Actually, from my personal experience on the show, I was struck by how close to real time the shows were actually executed.

Probably the single biggest factor in not doing it live is that would mean it wouldn't be in prime time for the entire country. Actually that factor probably makes it a non-starter.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by trainman »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:26 pm
Probably the single biggest factor in not doing it live is that would mean it wouldn't be in prime time for the entire country. Actually that factor probably makes it a non-starter.
I think it's more likely that a hypothetical "J! Live" would be in prime-time everywhere, because it would air on a delay in the western time zones. (That's already the case with most of ABC's live reality shows -- some "American Idol" episodes have been exceptions.)

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

trainman wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:48 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:26 pm
Probably the single biggest factor in not doing it live is that would mean it wouldn't be in prime time for the entire country. Actually that factor probably makes it a non-starter.
I think it's more likely that a hypothetical "J! Live" would be in prime-time everywhere, because it would air on a delay in the western time zones. (That's already the case with most of ABC's live reality shows -- some "American Idol" episodes have been exceptions.)
Yes, good point.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by fowlerism »

floridagator wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:14 pm
We've learned that James's strategy is very effective at knocking out middle-aged women from Dubuque
I know multiple middle-aged women who absolutely annihilate at trivia. If I wanted this kind of ignorance I would read the Facebook groups.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:26 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:07 pm

A more valid point - just south of 14 million viewers watched the show(s). Possibly 14,000 of them noticed the listings and did the math. Possibly 1400 of them cared about being spoiled. OK, that's three points. Increase my guestimates by 10X, and it still isn't worth the hoop jumping for a 0.01% geek demographic who will watch anyway. :lol:

It sucks to be spoiled, but you have to control it and get into your protective, off the grid bubble and it's mostly on you.
That's only a small part of why to do it live. I just think it would make it more exciting. Just think about sporting events. Even if you aren't spoiled it just loses something to watch something when you know it's already over with.

I think those saying it couldn't be done live are being influenced by the fact that it hasn't been done live. With the current format they've got time to fix errors, but that doesn't mean they really have to. Actually, from my personal experience on the show, I was struck by how close to real time the shows were actually executed.

Probably the single biggest factor in not doing it live is that would mean it wouldn't be in prime time for the entire country. Actually that factor probably makes it a non-starter.

I get the point about the sports events for some people, and had a golfing buddy who had to see them in real time or not at all. Once the VHS tape was invented (and I could afford it), I detached from live events for good. Only a moon landing would bring me back to real time. Although we watch Super Bowl commercials, we still tape delay so we can skip halftime or local commercials, etc..

We did have a nostalgic throwback experience watching this GOAT event on rabbit ears because DISH is in a pissing match with our local ABC affiliate. So, we had timed bathroom breaks, put up the dishes, etc.., just like the old days :).

I don't think watching a nerd festival for a million bucks makes a compelling appointment TV event. That DE we got from Seattle (Frank Clark) makes more than that to sit on the sideline with a hangnail injury every game :roll: .
[/quote]
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf »

floridagator wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:14 pm
We've learned that James's strategy is very effective at knocking out middle-aged women from Dubuque
fowlerism wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:23 am
I know multiple middle-aged women who absolutely annihilate at trivia. If I wanted this kind of ignorance I would read the Facebook groups.
There's a reason I've got certain people on ignore here.

But you're missing the point, Jeopardy isn't just about annihilating at trivia. Do the people you describe know how to hunt for DD's? Do they know how to wager optimally on DD's? Do they know how to wager in FJ so as to give themselves the best chance to win? Because very few contestants know this. And fewer still are able to implement this strategy under the lights.

James didn't win all that money just because he was good at trivia. He won that money because he employed near optimal strategy. Ken employed the same strategy and used it to win.

This strategy will knock out the near everybody from Dubuque as well as near everybody you know as well.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:29 pm
If anyone has a link to where I can watch this one, please message me. My recorder screwed up. (And please, obviously, do not mention the outcome.)
Triviawayne PMed me to say I could watch the whole GOAT on Hulu, so... give a penguin a fish, he's hungry a second later, teach a penguin to fish and he feels like an idiot.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

fowlerism wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:23 am
floridagator wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:14 pm
We've learned that James's strategy is very effective at knocking out middle-aged women from Dubuque
I know multiple middle-aged women who absolutely annihilate at trivia. If I wanted this kind of ignorance I would read the Facebook groups.
It was a reference to an old ad campaign for the New Yorker. "Not for the little old lady from Dubuque."

https://www.wnyc.org/story/161854-here- ... here-else/
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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

I just now got to see this match. I had been spoiled on Ken wining as well as on Iago, but I doubt I get that anyway outside of a wild guess.

As I knew Ken won, I knew James would miss FJ2. He probably should have gone all in on FJ1, but in the end it doesn’t matter.

My DVR did not record anything for Wednesday and Thursday.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant »

I'm extremely late to this party, so forgive me for resurrecting the old thread. I just finished watching all 4 days and had to make a couple of comments.

I somehow managed to be surprised at the ending even after being spoiled on the overall result. Like a couple of others, my DVR recorded "day 5" of the tournament. So I figured that's when Ken finished it off. I was fully expecting James to win this match, and thought so right until the final reveal.

I had no problem at all with the banter between the players. In this game specifically, James' comments were funny and timely. I am pretty sure that Brad was laughing as much as anyone at the comment right before game 2. And Ken had certainly figured out the wagering strategies on that DD before James' comment. Ken said that there is a good argument for betting small, which James followed up on. The two of them certainly had things figured out. It was not at all an attempt by James to influence the wagering or give Ken advice.

I'll admit that during his run, I was not much of a fan of James. But after seeing some other background material on him - both from J! and from various TV and other interviews - I changed my mind. While I still wish he's spend just a little of his winnings on smiling lessons, he strikes me as a genuinely nice guy. He was having fun along with the other players. And he certainly knows enough not to bite the hand that feeds him. When TPTB approached him and said something akin to "here's a guaranteed $250k for a week (or less) of your time, plus a shot at $750k more" he's smart enough to say "thank you" and give them what they need - some entertaining TV. He and the others certainly didn't disappoint.

As to the game play, calling this the GOAT tournament was appropriate. I did feel a bit for Brad. Either he or Alex jinxed him right from the start by talking about getting to the end of his J! prime. Although he was the first of the 3 to appear on the show, Ken is older. So I don't think that is necessarily true. However, keeping in playing shape - the study and preparation for the show - does take some effort. I still think Brad is a better player than this tournament would suggest. His past credentials would certainly support that.

James was himself. I did notice his tweaked his bottom row first strategy for this tournament. He went straight to DD hunting rather than trying to amass a score before coming upon the DD. Against players of this caliber, that is probably a good plan. I seem to recall he did a bit of that in the TOC.

Ken was simply outstanding with his recall. He might not be the fastest to answer, but his ability to figure out a wide range of topics while under pressure is impressive. And to do that against two other outstanding players put him properly at the top.

All in all, I enjoyed the tournament very much. Now, on to the three weeks of regular shows sitting on my DVR.
--Peter

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

"Hey, Brad's score is still on there."

To me it's still funny though vicious and I made sure just to catch that and the ending today. Even if others were offended by James's remark, it's still one of the more memorable moments from the event.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Now I finally get to read this thread. I've known the outcome for a while, of course. Almost impossible not to get spoiled one way or another. And even if I hadn't known it before, it was obvious when they told us there was only one match left and Ken was the only guy with two check marks.

I knew going into FJ that James had to get it wrong to lose. So I was expecting a TS or at least a DS. But FJ turned out to be something I would've expected James to get. Too bad. It would've been fun to see another match--even more fun to see Brad force at least another match after that.

It was amazing to watch Ken play, knowing that he had to leverage every advantage he came across. He clearly didn't like making all those big DD bets. But he'd steeled himself to the task and didn't chicken out when the time came. I'm glad he didn't have a heart attack!

I'm sure the results stung for Brad especially, but he was good-humored throughout his struggles and gracious to his opponents. Kudos to him. I hope he wasn't offended by James' comment, which I think was done in the spirit of good-humored trash talk. I really loved the banter throughout this tournament.

I'm pleased with the results in part because I got tired of boardies assuming Brad was the best and that his wins were all foregone conclusions. Now I guess I'm on the other side of things and feeling bad for Brad. The casual viewer may have watched his performance and felt like Brad was a weak player and maybe didn't belong there with the other two. Assumptions like that would bug me as well. This loss was no more a foregone conclusion than his wins were. And I have to think it's a statistical anomaly that he lost by the margins he did. Brad belonged up there and he was the ONLY one other than James and Ken who did. And he's not the Jose Carreras of the group either. (Sorry Jose.) He's one of the three GOATs. My hat's off to all three.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:26 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:07 pm

A more valid point - just south of 14 million viewers watched the show(s). Possibly 14,000 of them noticed the listings and did the math. Possibly 1400 of them cared about being spoiled. OK, that's three points. Increase my guestimates by 10X, and it still isn't worth the hoop jumping for a 0.01% geek demographic who will watch anyway. :lol:

It sucks to be spoiled, but you have to control it and get into your protective, off the grid bubble and it's mostly on you.
That's only a small part of why to do it live. I just think it would make it more exciting. Just think about sporting events. Even if you aren't spoiled it just loses something to watch something when you know it's already over with.

I think those saying it couldn't be done live are being influenced by the fact that it hasn't been done live. With the current format they've got time to fix errors, but that doesn't mean they really have to. Actually, from my personal experience on the show, I was struck by how close to real time the shows were actually executed.

Probably the single biggest factor in not doing it live is that would mean it wouldn't be in prime time for the entire country. Actually that factor probably makes it a non-starter.
I'm with you. I think doing this live would have been spectacular. I'm sure the challenges would have been substantial, but I'm not convinced they'd have been insurmountable. They'd definitely have had to do away with a firm ending time for each match, just as they do with sporting events. The game ends when it ends, ok?

As to judging decisions, give the judges some time when they need it. Stop the play and go to commercial or let the commentators--seaborgium and cheezguyty of course--chat about the game so far and how it compares to other players, other tournaments, other categories, other statistically interesting Jeopardy! events. These delays will take up less time than all the time outs in your average sportzball event AND they won't have the tendency to aggregate at the end, making the last few minutes of a game drag on forever.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 4 (1/14/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

trainman wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:48 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:26 pm
Probably the single biggest factor in not doing it live is that would mean it wouldn't be in prime time for the entire country. Actually that factor probably makes it a non-starter.
I think it's more likely that a hypothetical "J! Live" would be in prime-time everywhere, because it would air on a delay in the western time zones. (That's already the case with most of ABC's live reality shows -- some "American Idol" episodes have been exceptions.)
Or you could do it the way they did the live ER episode: Broadcast separate live performances three hours apart--the first for the east coast, the second for the west.. :D

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