Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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seaborgium
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

Linear Gnome wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:41 am
seaborgium wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:44 am See, to me, the vowel of "pear" and "air" is the same as the vowel of "bet" or "pen," just with an R finishing it. Are there any syllables with the vowel of "air" in your pronunciation that don't end with R?
How about "ham" or "yam"?
And those are the same vowels to me as in "hat" and "bat"!
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

Courtesy of Rex Kramer:

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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

davey wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:30 am It would be cool if a member of the Gordy family would weigh in on on social media on their understanding of the name
As long as it's not either member of LMFAO, I'm fine with this.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

John Boy wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:19 pm
Uh, no. Sorry. Berry and Barry are just two distinct names and two distinct pronunciations. Not that it mattered in determining the winner of this game, but the neg seemed quite correct to me.

Now why couldn't she just follow the advice of countless former players and boardies and use last name only? Solve THAT dilemma in a heartbeat.
Great advice, but some names are almost always heard first name-last name, particularly celebrities. We speak of Austen, Shakespeare, and Chaucer, but of Jennifer Aniston, Mary Higgins Clark, and Selena Gomez. There are other famous celebrities who share those last names, so we reflexively add the first name to distinguish. Movie trailers and commercials for shows almost always include the full name. Same would go for Berry Gordy - I've never heard him referred to as just "Gordy", except perhaps in a newspaper article after they establish his full name in the first reference.

Actually, for some reason I can hear a fictionalized version of a young Michael Jackson saying "Mr. Gordy", but that's the exception, not the rule. It's hard to not reflexively give the full information, especially when you think it's right. I'm sure some comedian has done some bit about being called by his first and last name constantly.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

alietr wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:57 am Courtesy of Rex Kramer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXiKgF ... tu.be&t=54
I would have guessed Tom Poston was hipper than that... :)
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Linear Gnome »

seaborgium wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:20 am
Linear Gnome wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:41 am
seaborgium wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:44 am See, to me, the vowel of "pear" and "air" is the same as the vowel of "bet" or "pen," just with an R finishing it. Are there any syllables with the vowel of "air" in your pronunciation that don't end with R?
How about "ham" or "yam"?
And those are the same vowels to me as in "hat" and "bat"!
Not to me, obviously.

Really weird example I just thought of. When I say "can" as a verb, I use the vowel from "hat"; when I say it as a noun (can of corn), I pronounce it like "air" or "candy". I believe this is the first time this has ever occurred to me.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

Linear Gnome wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:35 pm When I say "can" as a verb, I use the vowel from "hat"; when I say it as a noun (can of corn), I pronounce it like "air" or "candy".
Same here.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

econgator wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:49 pm
Linear Gnome wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:35 pm When I say "can" as a verb, I use the vowel from "hat"; when I say it as a noun (can of corn), I pronounce it like "air" or "candy".
Same here.
I'm having trouble even comprehending the distinctions you're making. Only air seems slightly different to me.
I assume when you say "can" as a verb, you mean as an auxiliary verb, not as putting up preserves? When I say can as an auxiliary verb, it most often comes out as c'n, or maybe, using my old friend, cən. I guess I'm really sloppy! But Yes we can! and Yes we can tomatoes in a can! are pretty much the same.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

davey wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:20 pm I'm having trouble even comprehending the distinctions you're making. Only air seems slightly different to me.
I assume when you say "can" as a verb, you mean as an auxiliary verb, not as putting up preserves? When I say can as an auxiliary verb, it most often comes out as c'n, or maybe, using my old friend, cən. I guess I'm really sloppy! But Yes we can! and Yes we can tomatoes in a can! are pretty much the same.
Also, "can" sounds exactly the same to me whether it's in "candy" or solo.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob »

This Is Kirk! wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 am Someone mentioned "pen" vs. "pin" in a Facebook group in relation to last night's FJ scoring decision. In a good part of the south those two words are pronounced the same and that might give some of us who would pronounce Barry and Berry the same some perspective. If the FJ clue was something like "He won an Academy Award for his portrayal of Harvey Milk" do you think Sean Pin would be accepted?
As a Marylander who dated an Alabama girl for 7 years and has since been married to her for 4 more years, I can absolutely attest to the pin/pen thing. After 11 years, I still can't tell them apart. There is often a significant communication barrier (rhymes with merrier) between us.

As for the original topic at hand, here in Maryland (but not Alabama), Barry and berry are two distinct sounds. The "a" in Barry is more like the a in "wax" (and, incidentally, rhymes with "bury"), and the "e" in berry is more like the "ai" in "hair".

In Alabamese, they rhyme. But then again, so do the three words "lion", "line" and "lying". Go figure.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Stanislaus Jacob »

alietr wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:57 am Courtesy of Rex Kramer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXiKgF ... tu.be&t=54
To my ears, by the way, the Real Berry says it more like Berry and the Fake Berrys say it more like Barry. But one thing that has become clear since this all started is that most of us, mergers and non-mergers alike, mentally fill in the sounds that we expect to hear. If one does try to listen closely, it can be a nightmare trying to figure out what sound the speaker intended to say.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

ParrotRob wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:34 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 am Someone mentioned "pen" vs. "pin" in a Facebook group in relation to last night's FJ scoring decision. In a good part of the south those two words are pronounced the same and that might give some of us who would pronounce Barry and Berry the same some perspective. If the FJ clue was something like "He won an Academy Award for his portrayal of Harvey Milk" do you think Sean Pin would be accepted?
As a Marylander who dated an Alabama girl for 7 years and has since been married to her for 4 more years, I can absolutely attest to the pin/pen thing. After 11 years, I still can't tell them apart. There is often a significant communication barrier (rhymes with merrier) between us.

As for the original topic at hand, here in Maryland (but not Alabama), Barry and berry are two distinct sounds. The "a" in Barry is more like the a in "wax" (and, incidentally, rhymes with "bury"), and the "e" in berry is more like the "ai" in "hair".

In Alabamese, they rhyme. But then again, so do the three words "lion", "line" and "lying". Go figure.
BTW, I used the word pretty above. There's a word where the e comes out like an i, and no one bats an eye. Personally, I don't think I'd even notice a Sean Pin...
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

davey wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:20 pm
econgator wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:49 pm
Linear Gnome wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:35 pm When I say "can" as a verb, I use the vowel from "hat"; when I say it as a noun (can of corn), I pronounce it like "air" or "candy".
Same here.
I'm having trouble even comprehending the distinctions you're making. Only air seems slightly different to me.
I assume when you say "can" as a verb, you mean as an auxiliary verb, not as putting up preserves? When I say can as an auxiliary verb, it most often comes out as c'n, or maybe, using my old friend, cən. I guess I'm really sloppy! But Yes we can! and Yes we can tomatoes in a can! are pretty much the same.
Understood and there's no possible way to give you examples without you actually hearing it.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

I'm reminded of the time not so long ago when a contestant with a deep Boston accent was ask the clue that resulted in the answer of the movie Cars. He said something like, "what is kaeeeez," with the beginning part sounding like the start of cash.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mahatma »

I was taking the NYT Upshot dialect quiz, and one of the questions asked how you pronounce Mary, merry and marry. I answered 'all the same', and the heat map showed almost the entire country in dark orange, with three little blue spots: NYC/NJ, Eastern Mass, and N'awlins.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

ParrotRob wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:34 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 am Someone mentioned "pen" vs. "pin" in a Facebook group in relation to last night's FJ scoring decision. In a good part of the south those two words are pronounced the same and that might give some of us who would pronounce Barry and Berry the same some perspective. If the FJ clue was something like "He won an Academy Award for his portrayal of Harvey Milk" do you think Sean Pin would be accepted?
As a Marylander who dated an Alabama girl for 7 years and has since been married to her for 4 more years, I can absolutely attest to the pin/pen thing. After 11 years, I still can't tell them apart. There is often a significant communication barrier (rhymes with merrier) between us.

As for the original topic at hand, here in Maryland (but not Alabama), Barry and berry are two distinct sounds. The "a" in Barry is more like the a in "wax" (and, incidentally, rhymes with "bury"), and the "e" in berry is more like the "ai" in "hair".

In Alabamese, they rhyme. But then again, so do the three words "lion", "line" and "lying". Go figure.
Barry and Berry sound different when this Alabamian says it. But I do pronounce pen and pin the same. As do lion and line.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

I think the Berry/Barry pronunciation discussion is moot, not only because the official statement on the matter made no reference to pronunciation, but also because J! has had "scary cherry" as a correct response in a Rhyme Time category.
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

Stanislaus Jacob wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:50 pm
alietr wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:57 am Courtesy of Rex Kramer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXiKgF ... tu.be&t=54
To my ears, by the way, the Real Berry says it more like Berry and the Fake Berrys say it more like Barry. But one thing that has become clear since this all started is that most of us, mergers and non-mergers alike, mentally fill in the sounds that we expect to hear. If one does try to listen closely, it can be a nightmare trying to figure out what sound the speaker intended to say.
I heard that exact same thing too. I usually specifically pronounce it with a distinct "e" when it's Berry Gordy to emphasize that it's NOT Barry. I wonder if he'd been socialized to do the same thing - it reminds people that it's with an "e", even if he probably has to explicitly state that if someone has to write his name down for an appointment or something.

I do sort of the same thing, I think - I try to get my last name in with two crisp syllables - Conley - and say "no double letters" before I spell it out. I thought I had explaining my name licked until someone asked, "With a K?"
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Re: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

seaborgium wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:58 am I think the Berry/Barry pronunciation discussion is moot, not only because the official statement on the matter made no reference to pronunciation, but also because J! has had "scary cherry" as a correct response in a Rhyme Time category.
I don't think it's entirely moot. I think it's what separates this from cases like the actual Katharine/Katherine or the hypothetical Jon/John, someone, whether it was Alex or a judge or a producer felt the names were not pronounced the same and therefore are different names. I don't necessarily feel that this is an intentional philosophical change by the J! staff or that we should expect it to be a precedent for future rulings. I think they just made a weird call and then put out a statement to defend it as best they can. We have plenty of other examples of inconsistencies through the years, on judging of responses and other gameplay/rules issues.
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