Tuesday, October 20, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

[morbeedo]

Atomic mass and weight are not synonymous, I see that now. But where did chlorine come from?

But would the judges have accepted "atomic mass"? That was my answer, since "weight" is variable depending upon gravity, whereas "mass" is constant.

We’ll never know! I went back and forth- not sure what I would have settle on

[morbeedo]

Atomic mass and weight are not synonymous, I see that now. But where did chlorine come from?

Especially from a pediatric neurology resident. That had to be pure panic under the lights. Possibly things got so tangled up in her mind that she was trying to think of the element with the atomic NUMBER closest to 15.99. That would be Sulfur at 16, but Chlorine's just one past it at 17.

Ah.

[talkingaway]

Arterial was a terrible trap. It's almost as if they put the word "adjective" in the clue just so the writers could go "haw haw". A better clue would have been "Word that describes blood leaving the heart" - arterial doesn't only have to refer to the vessels themselves, so you could make it more palatable (at least IMO) that way.

Oxygenated would work then.

No, because "art" isn't in the word.

While that's true, he brings up a good point that I'd overlooked. Blood in the pulmonary veins is indeed arterial, as the defining characteristic of arterial blood is its level of oxygenation, NOT its location of being in an artery.

Getting to that level of nitpickiness for a 3-second clue is a bit over the top, though. I'm still not a fan of the clue construction because of the accurate neg of the word "artery", especially since I've seen quite a few adjective/noun pairs that are acceptable responses for a clue.

[alietr]

Arterial was a terrible trap. It's almost as if they put the word "adjective" in the clue just so the writers could go "haw haw". A better clue would have been "Word that describes blood leaving the heart" - arterial doesn't only have to refer to the vessels themselves, so you could make it more palatable (at least IMO) that way.

Oxygenated would work then.

No, because "art" isn't in the word.

True. Forgot the category. But I have never liked the you're-wrong-because-you-gave-us-a-noun-instead-of-an-adjective or vice versa.

[opusthepenguin]

People, would YOU have accepted just "William Tell"? I don't see why not.

I would. Overture is sufficiently implied by “opening piece” in the clue.

Or, "opening piece" sufficiently implies the need for "overture" in the response...

That's where I landed. I initially questioned the ruling. But when I went back to look at the wording, I decided they were correct. Here's the wording that would make just William Tell correct:

Part of the famous 12-minute opening to this piece is called "March of the Swiss Soldiers"

This would also make William Tell Overture INcorrect, but I wonder if they'd rule that way.

Is there a wording that would make either response acceptable? I hate it when contestants make their way to almost the correct response but get stung by a technicality.

If there's no way to allow for both, I vote for my wording because it calls for the shorter response. That also keeps them from having to rule on how much of "Overture" has to be written for the response to count.

[teapot37]

Arterial was a terrible trap. It's almost as if they put the word "adjective" in the clue just so the writers could go "haw haw". A better clue would have been "Word that describes blood leaving the heart" - arterial doesn't only have to refer to the vessels themselves, so you could make it more palatable (at least IMO) that way.

Oxygenated would work then.

No, because "art" isn't in the word.

True. Forgot the category. But I have never liked the you're-wrong-because-you-gave-us-a-noun-instead-of-an-adjective or vice versa.

Also, the pulmonary arteries take deoxygenated blood from the heart to the lungs and the pulmonary veins return from the lungs to the heart with oxygenated blood, so only arterial completely fits the clue.

[opusthepenguin]

People, would YOU have accepted just "William Tell"? I don't see why not.

That would be like accepting "the Black Album" for "Enter Sandman."

It would be like accepting “Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band” for “Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.”

[davey]

Arterial was a terrible trap. It's almost as if they put the word "adjective" in the clue just so the writers could go "haw haw". A better clue would have been "Word that describes blood leaving the heart" - arterial doesn't only have to refer to the vessels themselves, so you could make it more palatable (at least IMO) that way.

Oxygenated would work then.

No, because "art" isn't in the word.

True. Forgot the category. But I have never liked the you're-wrong-because-you-gave-us-a-noun-instead-of-an-adjective or vice versa.

But they don't often do that, certainly not based on the grammatical construction of the clue. In this case the writers specifically asked for an adjective, not their fault that was ignored. Aren't people always asking for possible responses to be narrowed?

[opusthepenguin]

Isn't Let it Roll! $1000--𝑀𝑎𝑟𝑘 16:3 𝑎𝑠𝑘𝑠, "𝑊ℎ𝑜 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙 𝑢𝑠 𝑎𝑤𝑎𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑜𝑜𝑟 𝑜𝑓" 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠, 𝑎 𝑠𝑦𝑛𝑜𝑛𝑦𝑚 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑏 missing a "the"? Made it awfully confusing.

It didn't confuse me, but I see what you're saying. On the other hand, "'from the door of the' this" is a bit of a mouthful.

My problem with the clue is they didn't pin it to the KJV, unless you count the fact that the quoted portion is KJV. Most translations of that verse say "tomb". That wouldn't be acceptable here since tomb isn't a synonym for tomb. But some translations say "grave". I think that should be acceptable too. Otherwise they're asking the contestants to note the slightly odd wording of "shall roll us away", surmise that this is an older translation, and therefore guess a suitably older word.

[Volante]

That's where I landed. I initially questioned the ruling. But when I went back to look at the wording, I decided they were correct. Here's the wording that would make just William Tell correct:

Part of the famous 12-minute opening to this piece is called "March of the Swiss Soldiers"

This would also make William Tell Overture INcorrect, but I wonder if they'd rule that way.

Is there a wording that would make either response acceptable? I hate it when contestants make their way to almost the correct response but get stung by a technicality.

If there's no way to allow for both, I vote for my wording because it calls for the shorter response. That also keeps them from having to rule on how much of "Overture" has to be written for the response to count.

Maybe?...

This musical composition includes a section titled "March of the Swiss Soldiers"

But now it's starting to feel really vague and opens up the door to obscure pieces that also have that.
(Brief searching means "Ambulatory Suite" off "Ella Fitzgerald Sings the George and Ira Gershwin Song Book" would qualify as correct)

Maybe we should make a poll...how specific do we want answers? Also see: arterial.
*backs up through hedge, hunts for escape pod*

[CasualJeopardyFan19]

Is $-3,600 a new "in the hole" record for a returning champion? Just curious.

no: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=1911

Thanks.

[yclept]

Is it just me...or is this season on Jeopardy, like the rest of everything in 2020, a little off-kilter? It seems we are seeing more games than normal with players finishing the game in the red and not being around for FJ. And a lot of games with slow flow and lots of missed answers.

The show is limited in their contestant pool, many of these might be ones that would normally have been thought of as "close, but not show ready".

True that, though one may ask that if this is the case, why hasn’t someone who is more “show ready” come in and dominated the pack? Kevin is a $100K+ champion, so he took some advantage of it. But if the contestant pool is weaker, you would expect to see a stronger player come in and crush it.

[jeff6286]

Is it just me...or is this season on Jeopardy, like the rest of everything in 2020, a little off-kilter? It seems we are seeing more games than normal with players finishing the game in the red and not being around for FJ. And a lot of games with slow flow and lots of missed answers.

The show is limited in their contestant pool, many of these might be ones that would normally have been thought of as "close, but not show ready".

True that, though one may ask that if this is the case, why hasn’t someone who is more “show ready” come in and dominated the pack? Kevin is a $100K+ champion, so he took some advantage of it. But if the contestant pool is weaker, you would expect to see a stronger player come in and crush it.

We've seen this to an extent, no one I would call a dominating or powerhouse player this season but a few players who showed themselves to at least be above average were able to rack up 2 or 3 easy victories.

[BigDaddyMatty]

Coryat: $30,600
45 R/1 W
DD: 3/3
FJ:
LT: barrel, "Drive My Car," "Ring of Fire," sepulchre, Tom Joad, Hester Prynne (DD), Bank of the United States, Seminole Wars, age of the Earth, atomic mass/weight (DD), The Larry Sanders Show

I love how Alex just casually says something to the effect of "oh, well; no biggie" to Carlos's $20,000 swing on FJ!

[talkingaway]

Is it just me...or is this season on Jeopardy, like the rest of everything in 2020, a little off-kilter? It seems we are seeing more games than normal with players finishing the game in the red and not being around for FJ. And a lot of games with slow flow and lots of missed answers.

The show is limited in their contestant pool, many of these might be ones that would normally have been thought of as "close, but not show ready".

True that, though one may ask that if this is the case, why hasn’t someone who is more “show ready” come in and dominated the pack? Kevin is a $100K+ champion, so he took some advantage of it. But if the contestant pool is weaker, you would expect to see a stronger player come in and crush it.

If you separate the tiers of J! applicants into "close but not show ready", "show ready", and "ToC worthy dominators", I think you're going to get fewer outliers (ie from Zuffranieri to Jennings) whenever you bottleneck the contestant pool - whether it's based on age, occupation, or geographic location. Finding those rare ToC contestants was already hard, and restricting yourself to any one geographic area makes it even harder.

You're also getting more contestants that are at the same (or similar) overall level of skill/knowledge, which should create more turnover. Essentially, it's flattening the curve of contestant ability.

[LucarioSnooperVixey]

50 R (Couldn't come up with the Beatles song and skunked Comedians though I have heard of all of them.)
DD: 3/3
FJ:
LT: Barrel, Ring of Fire, Sepulchre, Tom Joad, (Hester Prynne), Bank of the United States, Seminole Wars, Age of the Earth, (Atomic Weight), Edwin Hubble, Pre-Columbian, Mesa Verde