Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
Because "Boys of Summer" just screams douchey self-involved dude.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:56 pm
Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
Because "Boys of Summer" just screams douchey self-involved dude.
I always thought the guy was an idiot. Pining over some chick not interested in him because the boys of summer are around. There are other fish in the sea.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

John Boy wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:55 am
I just never understand how you can watch the game (for most contestants, for years!) and never catch on that wagering strategy IS part of every game. *deep sigh*
I think for a lot of people it's a mental block on math. They just can't imagine what it would take to figure out a strategy. It doesn't help that TALK about wagering strategy--whether on this board or elsewhere--can be very hard to follow. That can be true even for people who understand wagering or like to think they do. A clipboard or a notepad and a pencil can help tremendously. But you have to get over that mental hurdle that says you don't know where to start.

Still, I'm with you on the deep sigh. For years Mrs Penguin would say after the end of many games, "If I ever get on the show, I'm going to have to learn how to wager." She didn't know whether the wagers had been bad or good. She KNEW that she didn't know. And she knew that it would be smart to rectify that. Doesn't seem like the insight should be that rare, but I guess it is.

Eventually we got clipboards and started pausing the game before FJ to figure out what we thought the contestants should wager. It was remarkably easy to develop good basic strategy without any coaching. The most important basic insight--which should be obvious but isn't--is this: If you're in second place, you won't win unless first place misses FJ. Yes, there are rare exceptions. Put them out of your mind. Betting the farm because you're behind isn't going to magically give you more money than first place can accumulate on a get. So concentrate on the possibility that first place will miss FJ and figure out what options that gives you.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

The description of "Instaget guess" for FJ! fit me perfectly. It just seemed to scream Hallmark, and I couldn't come up with another viable response. Of course, considering that I'm a hunky but low-earning Christmas tree lot owner who's doing good deeds for a haughty city girl stuck in my small town because of her very important job, Hallmark would be on my mind.
twelvefootboy wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:22 am
I'll have to see wtf "yacht rock" is. I am the worst baby boomer ever, I knew those groups' names and a couple of the song lyrics, but could never match them to anything. We were strolling in the Big Apple in 2013 and Steve Tyler and his entourage almost knocked us down storming out of a hotel lobby and I was the only one who never heard of him.
"Yacht Rock" is the new name for what used to be called "soft rock" in the 80s and early 90s. Basically, mostly 70s and 80s mid-tempo music. I think there was some kind of web series called Yacht Rock with actors playing the roles of popular Yacht Rock stars like Hall and Oates or Christopher Cross, but I could be a little bit off. I think that's what gives it its name.
Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
Don Henley's solo career is much bigger than Frey's. Off the top of my head, I can only name "You Belong to the City" as one of Glen Frey's songs, while Henley has more - although I tend to conflate his solo career with his Eagles songs.

Okay, looking it up, Frey did have another big hit - "The Heat is On". Both of his songs are 80s sax heavy. He only had 4 albums in the 80s-90s. Henley's discography is actually smaller - only 3 studio albums in the 80s and 90s - but he had more hits. "Dirty Laundry", "The Boys of Summer", "All She Wants To Do Is Dance", "The End of the Innocence", and "Last Worthless Evening" all got pretty heavy airplay back in the day. "Heart of the Matter", "New York Minute", and "Sunset Grill" were a little less popular, so probably not worth noting. Best to go with "Eagles + singer = Henley" unless you have a really good reason to go otherwise.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

Frey had Smuggler’s Blues as well.

Matching song to singer isn’t a wheelhouse for me. But thanks for the tip that Henley had the bigger solo career.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:11 pm
John Boy wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:55 am
I just never understand how you can watch the game (for most contestants, for years!) and never catch on that wagering strategy IS part of every game. *deep sigh*
I think for a lot of people it's a mental block on math. They just can't imagine what it would take to figure out a strategy. It doesn't help that TALK about wagering strategy--whether on this board or elsewhere--can be very hard to follow. That can be true even for people who understand wagering or like to think they do. A clipboard or a notepad and a pencil can help tremendously. But you have to get over that mental hurdle that says you don't know where to start.

Still, I'm with you on the deep sigh. For years Mrs Penguin would say after the end of many games, "If I ever get on the show, I'm going to have to learn how to wager." She didn't know whether the wagers had been bad or good. She KNEW that she didn't know. And she knew that it would be smart to rectify that. Doesn't seem like the insight should be that rare, but I guess it is.

Eventually we got clipboards and started pausing the game before FJ to figure out what we thought the contestants should wager. It was remarkably easy to develop good basic strategy without any coaching. The most important basic insight--which should be obvious but isn't--is this: If you're in second place, you won't win unless first place misses FJ. Yes, there are rare exceptions. Put them out of your mind. Betting the farm because you're behind isn't going to magically give you more money than first place can accumulate on a get. So concentrate on the possibility that first place will miss FJ and figure out what options that gives you.
I think a lot of people just don’t think about wagering strategy until Alex says “We’ll be back with Final Jeopardy after these messages”.

But I agree people are letting basic math intimidate them. Unless someone makes a Jamesesque wager, the totals are all multiples of 100. And with doubled clue values, they are likely going to be multiples of $200. So there is usually a 1/5 chance a score will be a multiple of $1,000, making it easier.

With a DVR, it is simple to stop the tape and decide what is best for each player. If you are smart enough to get on Jeopardy, you are smart enough to understand basic wagering strategy. It is simple addition and subtraction. It doesn’t involve grad school level calculus.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:36 pm
Frey had Smuggler’s Blues as well.

Matching song to singer isn’t a wheelhouse for me. But thanks for the tip that Henley had the bigger solo career.
Pretty much all of Glenn Frey's singles were tied to Miami Vice.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:16 am
Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
Glenn Frey is dead, so guess the guy who is alive? The clue offers no hint to guess Don Henley as it did not add what you needed, "pullover collarless shirt". It's match the song to the artist. The contestants went 2/5 in the category and that was one of the hits. Devon did not get double digits in clues correct until the FJ! round, but he got that one.
Don Henley seems to be by far the one with the most post-Eagles success. I'm surprised that I've seen at least two cases in the past couple years where Henley = Eagles was a TS.
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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Newhausen »

yclept wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:34 am
Devon ran into a pair of buzzsaws, but little did he know that just a few more right answers would have won him this game due to a poor second place wager.
More money wouldn't have helped him. The one thing Amanda's wager did accomplish was keeping him locked out even with a double. If Devon had more, Amanda would have likely wagered less to keep Devon locked out. Having more money would have given the win from Brayden to Amanda, not Devon (unless you're giving him enough to go over half Amanda's score).

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

Robert K S wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:11 am
Another "Macy's" here. My grandmother was a gift-wrapper for O'Neill's, which was Akron's version of Macy's, in the '60s[?]/'70s/early '80s. Christmastime was a special time at grandma's house, with homemade potica and the most expertly wrapped and ornamented gifts. Grandma swore by the knife method of cutting gift wrap. I guess when you wrap 500 packages a day you don't have time for the energy-wasteful snip-snip-snip of scissors.
I saw this comic today:

Gift Wrapping.jpg
Gift Wrapping.jpg (113.66 KiB) Viewed 603 times

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

mas3cf wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:41 am
Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
I mean, that was a pretty big song in the 80s. It hit #1 on the Billboard charts and got a Grammy nomination. When I was a kid, it was on the radio All. The. Time.
Sounds like a...Loop of Henley

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

jeff6286 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:17 pm
mas3cf wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:41 am
Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
I mean, that was a pretty big song in the 80s. It hit #1 on the Billboard charts and got a Grammy nomination. When I was a kid, it was on the radio All. The. Time.
Sounds like a...Loop of Henley
Back in those days, DJs were always airing their "Dirty Laundry" in public.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

jeff6286 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:17 pm
mas3cf wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:41 am
Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
I mean, that was a pretty big song in the 80s. It hit #1 on the Billboard charts and got a Grammy nomination. When I was a kid, it was on the radio All. The. Time.
Sounds like a...Loop of Henley
I'm surprised this comment didn't get....8-).....filtered.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Euphonium »

Devon looks like a young Alex and that has to be intentional

I'm going to have to go back and look, because it seems like Brayden's wearing the same shirt as yesterday's show

While my feelings about Scalia make this statement apply in general, outside of Jeopardy, Scalia's way overvalued at $1000. Their relationship was pretty well-known, I thought.

It's not possible for a clue to be overvalued at $200, but it seems like Kern, Imperial, and Lassen Counties for California is. Super-obvious.

Kris Kross'll make ya JUMP! JUMP! Mack Daddy make ya JUMP! JUMP! Daddy Mack make ya JUMP! JUMP! (yes, I know it's different)

And FARC built playgrounds...doing good things doesn't undo or excuse the bad things you do, especially when they're not something that takes any courage or conviction

I said Australian Wildfires out loud, which is my marker of commitment for a response for Coryat purposes, but I second-guessed myself that maybe it was the Christchurch mosque shooting, but no, I was right.

Surprised that no one put the date together to get Boxer...

Brayden pulled it out, but he seems to just be getting tired. Not sure if this was made on the first or second taping day of the week, and that might end up making a huge difference.

OK, yeah, that's the same shirt as before.

Coryat: $40,400

J: 26R3P1W. Got DD. 5/5 on States, RBG, and Moving. 4/5 on Winnings and Final (my brain interpreted "4 letter" as "4 word" and I said "flying purple people eater" instead of "ogre").

DJ: 24R5P1W. 2/2 on DDs (initially went to the same place Brayden did, then I paid attention to "Balboa"). 5/5 on Chinese History and Money. 4/5 on Literature, Biology (elephant instead of giraffe), and In Excelsis Deo. 2/5 on Movies.

FJ: Got it. Came to Hallmark instantly, then started second-guessing because I thought envelopes, well then mail order, and Christmas, so maybe Sears? But nah, envelopes wouldn't be really useful for anything you'd get from Sears so I settled back on Hallmark.

LT: Doobie Brothers, Colorado (on the rebound), bill of lading, Dumas, Boxer, Dowager Empress, diesel
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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Euphonium »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:55 pm
Alex still could bring it to close a chat portion as Devon imitated Kermit the Frog and Alex complimented him on his Bogart.
Is that who it was? I thought it was Ernie...they were both voiced by the same sequence of actors (Jim Henson, then Steve Whitmire after Henson's death) during the era I was watching Sesame Street, so close enough I suppose.
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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Euphonium »

Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
I metagamed it on that one: it's a $200 clue, therefore it's most likely Don Henley (who seems to be rather the better-known of the two--not that Frye is particularly obscure, of course).
There are zero decent, moral people who support the death penalty.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf »

Bamaman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 am
I lost the coin flip on the Eagles song by guessing Glen Frye. Other than just knowing, is there a reason I should have guessed Don Henley?
Euphonium wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:30 pm
I metagamed it on that one: it's a $200 clue, therefore it's most likely Don Henley (who seems to be rather the better-known of the two--not that Frye is particularly obscure, of course).
As already mentioned, The Boys of Summer was a huge hit. The Eagles mention was added because it was a top row box, it was unnecessary information. It would have been fair to simply ask, who had a hit in 1985 with The Boys of Summer.

Can't hear Bill of Lading without thinking of the loading the gorilla scene in Trading Places. Ah, the 80's was a great time to be alive.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

Euphonium wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:16 pm
Devon looks like a young Alex and that has to be intentional
Absolutely my first thought - surely he grew the porn star mustache just for his show appearance :lol: . It's weird how men's facial hair cycles run, maybe the Al Queda look has run it's course and we'll recycle back to the Fu Manchu. Just anything but the neck beard, please :).
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Linear Gnome »

Volante wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:39 pm
Not their first foray into that type of category and they never use quotes in it. Quotes in a category have a very specific rule.

Some examples:
http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=4904 - WORDS WITH(IN) FRIENDS
http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6839 - IN ORDER
http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3303 - WORDS IN FEBRUARY
Good point. Thanks for the references.

I wonder if they would have had Alex rerecord the verbal description (i.e., using letters from "excelsis deo" and not "in excelsis deo") under normal circumstances.

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Re: Friday, December 18, 2020 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:11 pm
John Boy wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:55 am
I just never understand how you can watch the game (for most contestants, for years!) and never catch on that wagering strategy IS part of every game. *deep sigh*
I think for a lot of people it's a mental block on math. They just can't imagine what it would take to figure out a strategy. It doesn't help that TALK about wagering strategy--whether on this board or elsewhere--can be very hard to follow. That can be true even for people who understand wagering or like to think they do. A clipboard or a notepad and a pencil can help tremendously. But you have to get over that mental hurdle that says you don't know where to start.

Still, I'm with you on the deep sigh. For years Mrs Penguin would say after the end of many games, "If I ever get on the show, I'm going to have to learn how to wager." She didn't know whether the wagers had been bad or good. She KNEW that she didn't know. And she knew that it would be smart to rectify that. Doesn't seem like the insight should be that rare, but I guess it is.

Eventually we got clipboards and started pausing the game before FJ to figure out what we thought the contestants should wager. It was remarkably easy to develop good basic strategy without any coaching. The most important basic insight--which should be obvious but isn't--is this: If you're in second place, you won't win unless first place misses FJ. Yes, there are rare exceptions. Put them out of your mind. Betting the farm because you're behind isn't going to magically give you more money than first place can accumulate on a get. So concentrate on the possibility that first place will miss FJ and figure out what options that gives you.
My sister is a huge J! fan but like the people you reference here she also has zero wagering sense. One time I did sit down with her and a pen and paper and tried to explain the most basic stuff (don't go all-in from second, and why) and her eyes just glazed over. And she's not math-phobic or dumb by any stretch. She just can't make that leap from answering J! clues to wagering. And that's why I'm the only one in the family who wants to be a contestant.

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