Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Bamaman
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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

StevenH wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:33 pm
I probably heard wrong, but it sounded to me like Jack said "continent" for "consonant."

It was cool to see the clue on Jellyfish Lake in Palau. I remember when a visit to it was featured as a reward on Survivor.

I guessed Lenin on the tiebreaker clue, but I wasn't sure.
I heard the same thing.

On a side note, I hate categories on words that are a bunch of letters long. Usually it doesn’t matter if you make a word plural or not. But it did here and could have cost Brian the game because he couldn’t figure out on the fly how many letters are in consonant.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

I noticed a lot less "we were going for" today. Also liked the split-screen on the tiebreaker.

Ran British Pantry.

Strangely, Extreme Lakes was an 0/5 for me. The clues just didn't connect at all.

6R in DJ!, of which 4 were in 5 "E" and the others were the Dragon clues.

Hawaii + England = Captain Cook. Easy. However, I had nothing on the TB clue.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

Whiffed on FJ! because I was thinking it would be one of those British adventure novels - Treasure Island, or something like that. I knew Hawaii was probably in the wrong part of the world. Of course, when I saw "Cook", I smacked my head.

Sorry, I like the tie-breaker system. The reason for it is simple: prevent a pair (or group!) of contestants from colluding, even tacitly. The optimal strategy for J! would be to play the two rounds so that the three players get as much money as possible, but so that they also maximize the lowest score of the three - in other words, let the low guy respond to each clue if he knows it. For FJ!, lagging player bets 0, leaders bet their difference over the lagger. Leaders get it wrong. Everyone comes back the next day. Repeat until you get bored or the J! lawyers have a stern talk with you.

I'm gonna say it now: I hate J!'s use of X-POURRI. If your column has a clue about cats, television, British royalty, an anagram, and a Renaissance painter - that's potpourri. LIT-POURRI is just LITERATURE. BIBLE-POURRI is just BIBLE.

I should have thought more when answering cork for the helix clue instead of corkscrew. Now that I read the clue, yeah, you'd be popular at a wine tasting if you had a corkscrew (or if you look at those internet videos on how to remove a cork with your shoe.) But...aren't wine corks more of a "normal" thing to collect?

For the $800 clue in 5 "E": "To give someone the tools they need". I said "empower". Judges? Seems to fit if you take "tools" as being figurative and not necessarily literal. "This book will empower you to start your own business."

In the ToC tracker, they apparently don't count consolation money, so for Brian, it's win or forget it.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:11 pm
...

For the $800 clue in 5 "E": "To give someone the tools they need". I said "empower". Judges? Seems to fit if you take "tools" as being figurative and not necessarily literal. "This book will empower you to start your own business."

In the ToC tracker, they apparently don't count consolation money, so for Brian, it's win or forget it.
The words seemed to be five-letter words and not just ones starting with "E". Ken did not explain this (or at least it did not air) so I don't know if you would bust the host on a technicality. It did happen to Alex sometimes.

Right, ignore the $1000 or $2000 of a departing champ's winning as far as ToC qualification.

I have no knowledge either way, so until Monday morning I can still wish for a play-in game with Brian & Zach. In that event watch the third player with no experience win and become the best friend of the bubble champs.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Linear Gnome »

Bamaman wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:54 pm

On a side note, I hate categories on words that are a bunch of letters long. Usually it doesn’t matter if you make a word plural or not. But it did here and could have cost Brian the game because he couldn’t figure out on the fly how many letters are in consonant.
I think having the word "or" in the clue (B or C) was supposed to lead the player to give the response in the singular.
talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:11 pm
For the $800 clue in 5 "E": "To give someone the tools they need". I said "empower". Judges? Seems to fit if you take "tools" as being figurative and not necessarily literal. "This book will empower you to start your own business."
All of the responses had 5 letters, but it's not clear to me that that's specified by the category--it could just refer to the fact that 5 responses would begin with "E". (Mark commented on this while I was typing.) The first thing I came up with was "endow", which my instinct says is closer than "empower" but perhaps not close enough.

I guessed correctly on FJ! and the tie-breaker. I got the Philadelphia Orchestra in China question correct because it seemed to fit in with Nixon's cultural thaw, or whatever you want to call it, at that time.

It's a shame that Jack had to lose this game, though I find the "Monroe's successor" TS a bit shocking in such a well-played game.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mjhunt »

talkingaway wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:11 pm
Whiffed on FJ! because I was thinking it would be one of those British adventure novels - Treasure Island, or something like that. I knew Hawaii was probably in the wrong part of the world. Of course, when I saw "Cook", I smacked my head.

Sorry, I like the tie-breaker system. The reason for it is simple: prevent a pair (or group!) of contestants from colluding, even tacitly. The optimal strategy for J! would be to play the two rounds so that the three players get as much money as possible, but so that they also maximize the lowest score of the three - in other words, let the low guy respond to each clue if he knows it. For FJ!, lagging player bets 0, leaders bet their difference over the lagger. Leaders get it wrong. Everyone comes back the next day. Repeat until you get bored or the J! lawyers have a stern talk with you.

I'm gonna say it now: I hate J!'s use of X-POURRI. If your column has a clue about cats, television, British royalty, an anagram, and a Renaissance painter - that's potpourri. LIT-POURRI is just LITERATURE. BIBLE-POURRI is just BIBLE.

I should have thought more when answering cork for the helix clue instead of corkscrew. Now that I read the clue, yeah, you'd be popular at a wine tasting if you had a corkscrew (or if you look at those internet videos on how to remove a cork with your shoe.) But...aren't wine corks more of a "normal" thing to collect?

For the $800 clue in 5 "E": "To give someone the tools they need". I said "empower". Judges? Seems to fit if you take "tools" as being figurative and not necessarily literal. "This book will empower you to start your own business."

In the ToC tracker, they apparently don't count consolation money, so for Brian, it's win or forget it.
I have seen this an your other posts on the issue. I found the different ways of collusion on game shows interesting and was going to write more but just didn't get to it at the time.

But, for now, I do have to say to this that if this were realistic, my gosh you would expect to see it happen at least once in 30 years, wouldn't you?


There has to be a reason why not. It just doesn't fit well with human nature, since that is to win as much money for oneself as possible. And, what you are mentioning would involve giving up a huge amount of potential money when there is no way that much trust could build between strangers.

Yes, the world is more connected today than in 1984, but even then there were contestants who met at auditions and played on the same episode, as well as players held over from tapings who had the chance to talk.

And nothing remotely like this happened in early season 31. What it was is that after Arthur Chu played for the tie every time, other people read the final wager. It never suggested anything like this, but what it suggested is that betting to tie could encourage those in close second to bet it all for a tie rather than small for a triple stumper.

I am not sure how strong that is in practice, since many still overwager anyway.

But, there was a large increase in both wagering to tie and actual ties.

If Jeopardy! just did not want to pay two winners, bump people to make room for frequent co-champions, pay to fly extra people back in some cases, etc., OK. I understand.

But, I firmly reject any claim that the change was necessary to keep the competition clean.
Last edited by mjhunt on Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woppy T »

I HATE THE TIEBREAKER

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

Didn't there use to be a poster with the handle "playforthetie"? I haven't noticed him around lately.
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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

I was happy when Ken BMSed Roosevelt. Finally! I thought. They're introducing a little rigor where we've always needed it. Then, after a pause, perhaps while he looked to the judges, he let Cromwell slide without asking for further info. I knew that one was Thomas Cromwell but somehow talked myself into Thomas More.

FJ was the obvious guess and that's the one I went with. I did worry that it would turn out to be the Earl of Sandwich or something stupid like that.

Oh, Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. You had 9,994 non-terrible wagers to choose from. Some would've been borderline ok, but none would have been terrible. You chose the 9,995th. It was clear that Brian and Jack would at least have to seriously consider betting it all lest the other one get ahead and win. So bet to leave yourself at LEAST a buck on a triple stumper. Ideally, more than a buck since you can't guarantee that Brian and/or Jack won't try to leave themselves a dollar. But at least a buck. There's no sane reason not to.

I hate the tie-breaker. Setting aside debates about fairness and doing right by the players--which may start out well-intentioned but will just end up sour and unresolvable--the tiebreaker does not play well. It is not good TV. It's no more satisfying or dramatic than a coin flip. It is the second stupidest commonly used way of resolving tie contests in a televised event. Bring back the tie! Collusion was never a problem and is not a credible worry in my opinion. To the extent that it's a worry at all, that worry can be addressed. Occasional ties make good TV.

Alternatively, if you insist on a tiebreaker, how about this? Any game that ends in a two-way tie will be settled by a tiebreaker clue open to ALL THREE contestants. That'll make contestants think very carefully before making a wager that might produce a tie. (Assuming, against the bulk of the evidence, that anything can make contestants think carefully about their wagers.) Wager to tie and you might end up letting the third place kid back in for a stunning upset. It would make me giggle anyway.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Lefty wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:15 pm
Didn't there use to be a poster with the handle "playforthetie"? I haven't noticed him around lately.
That was goforthetie if I recall.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by rockyboy34 »

Damn, that tiebreaker was intense! Beautiful end to ken’s 2nd week of guest hosting!

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles »

It's great to see a game with two players both getting the same high score. Really competitive.

I was 3/5 on big clues. I said Red Tide instead of Crimson Tide. Since they needed the sports team that's a miss. I missed Cromwell but might have gotten it on a different day. I didn't play well in DJ except for running the Bruce Willis quotes. Brian's run on the 5 "E" category was really impressive. He was so fast. Too bad there was no live audience to appreciate it.

Brian and Jack both appeared to hold their buzzer the same way at their waist. Maggie was playing with her index finger. It looked like all 3 contestants were really on top of their buzzer game.

For the clue "It's a customary code of proper behavior or formalities in society" I said protocols.
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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy »

AntmanB wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:29 pm
I put Down Alexander Hamilton for Final. Im guessing im not the Only one. The places that werent in US should have been n a Giveaway that i didnt Pick up On.
Plus, wasn't Hamilton involved in a famous shooting of some kind nearly 30 years later?

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AntmanB »

John Boy wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:20 pm
AntmanB wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:29 pm
I put Down Alexander Hamilton for Final. Im guessing im not the Only one. The places that werent in US should have been n a Giveaway that i didnt Pick up On.
Plus, wasn't Hamilton involved in a famous shooting of some kind nearly 30 years later?

Yeah I didn’t know it was 30 years later. I thought it happened soon after the revolutionary war ended.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

So now I know how to pronounce the name "Eoin." :D

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy »

Woppy T wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:06 pm
I HATE THE TIEBREAKER
Amen. I can't imagine that the reason for it is simply $$, as it can't possibly make that much of a dent in the J! budget if they have to give out two first prizes once per season or so. Doesn't strike me as more emotionally satisfying this way either.

I would just hate-hate-hate to get one chance in all my life to be on this show, play as well as our challenger did tonight, finish the regular game with a correctly-wagered and correctly-answered final, have ALL that $$, and then have to risk it all on one Who-Can-Ring-In-First playoff.

So yeah, boo, hiss to the tiebreaker.

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:22 pm
I was happy when Ken BMSed Roosevelt. Finally! I thought. They're introducing a little rigor where we've always needed it. Then, after a pause, perhaps while he looked to the judges, he let Cromwell slide without asking for further info. I knew that one was Thomas Cromwell but somehow talked myself into Thomas More.

FJ was the obvious guess and that's the one I went with. I did worry that it would turn out to be the Earl of Sandwich or something stupid like that.

Oh, Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. You had 9,994 non-terrible wagers to choose from. Some would've been borderline ok, but none would have been terrible. You chose the 9,995th. It was clear that Brian and Jack would at least have to seriously consider betting it all lest the other one get ahead and win. So bet to leave yourself at LEAST a buck on a triple stumper. Ideally, more than a buck since you can't guarantee that Brian and/or Jack won't try to leave themselves a dollar. But at least a buck. There's no sane reason not to.

I hate the tie-breaker. Setting aside debates about fairness and doing right by the players--which may start out well-intentioned but will just end up sour and unresolvable--the tiebreaker does not play well. It is not good TV. It's no more satisfying or dramatic than a coin flip. It is the second stupidest commonly used way of resolving tie contests in a televised event. Bring back the tie! Collusion was never a problem and is not a credible worry in my opinion. To the extent that it's a worry at all, that worry can be addressed. Occasional ties make good TV.

Alternatively, if you insist on a tiebreaker, how about this? Any game that ends in a two-way tie will be settled by a tiebreaker clue open to ALL THREE contestants. That'll make contestants think very carefully before making a wager that might produce a tie. (Assuming, against the bulk of the evidence, that anything can make contestants think carefully about their wagers.) Wager to tie and you might end up letting the third place kid back in for a stunning upset. It would make me giggle anyway.
OR, to paraphrase a long-ago suggestion by George Carlin:

Bring the two tied contestants out onto center stage in front of the lecterns. Bring a chimpanzee out onto the stage. Whichever contestant the chimp touches first, wins the game. Hey, is J. Fred Muggs still alive?

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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by NYCScribbler »

I do love me a good WNBA reference, even if none of the contestants did, even when spotted the city. That being said, the Mercury isn't even the most apropos team for the category. Anyone want to take a shot at a) which team it is and b) writing a clue for that team?
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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Vermonter »

I gave myself credit for "desiccate" under 9-LETTER WORDS, $800 ("To take the water out of something"). Judges?
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Re: Friday, January 22, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

NYCScribbler wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:32 pm
I do love me a good WNBA reference, even if none of the contestants did, even when spotted the city. That being said, the Mercury isn't even the most apropos team for the category. Anyone want to take a shot at a) which team it is and b) writing a clue for that team?
WNBA: The Puget Sound region is often affected by these weather phenomena, including the 1962 Columbus Day one that devastated much of the Pacific Northwest coast.
Spoiler
Last edited by This Is Kirk! on Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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