Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Agrajag »

$20,200 Coryat w/ 38 R / 7 W
Runs: Song Title on My Rad, Biographies, Form of a Question
Bagels: None
DD: :( (could NOT remember the Cardinal's name) :D :( (blanked on Tut's resting place)
LT: The Invisible Man, The World According to Garp, Where's Waldo
FJ: :oops: Struggled for ~15s to remember <Allen> Ginsberg's name & after I remembered it, didn't think it could be anyone else
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:47 pm It's penguins all the way down.
So don't waste your mind on nursery rhymes
Or fairy tales of blood and wine
It's penguins turtles all the way down the line

Nah, I like Sturgill's take better.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

econgator wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:30 pm
MarkBarrett wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:46 pm The FJ! clue had me write the wrong guy and after that I had a second thought. Looking at both names I went the right way on a Dawson Crossin' and I would have howled if I had 50/50/90ed myself since it went 100% on the show. [Whew!]
I had Kerouac from the beginning, but I did consider Ginsberg.
I guess the other possibility would be Burroughs, but I was fairly confident with Kerouac.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

I too had problems coming up with Kerouac, because as usual I spent the time in FJ! circumlocuting the response. "Oh, that Garrett Hedlund movie from 10 years ago based on that famous Beat novel....what was it. On the Road! Kerouac." Ginsberg just didn't seem right to me - I didn't think of him, but the clue seemed to lean to Kerouac. Maybe because J! writers love him. I'll be honest, it was probably more instinct and familiarity that made me go with Kerouac, since I don't think I've read anything from the Beat era (although I did see the Hedlund movie.)

The two champs made the guitar riff in the intro come at the wrong time, as expected. I honestly felt bad for all 3 of them, but I guess it's an unavoidable situation.

I wish someone would pay me $800 for knowing what day comes two days before the founding of the US...I actually knew that it happened before July 4, and would have guessed 2 days anyway.

I still feel bad for the whole Invisible Man/The Invisible Man kerfuffle. Yes, they're different, and, yes, they should count as different responses. But it's just so easy to insert the article in front of the title....just like it's easy to slip up and say Revelations. Of course, both of those are archetypes of "watch out for these errors", but it doesn't make it any less painful.

Also painful - Papa's Got A Bran New Bag. Ken actually said, "I'm gonna need your help finishing it". If they had given the "d" in the clue, could they have counted it? I imagine it's a case of the heebie-jeebies that caused Jill to freeze, and I could see anyone new to the show doing that, too.

seaborgium wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm Does that mean Zach was in a Joshua Brakhage situation, where winning or losing this game determined not whether he'd be in a ToC, but which one he'd be in?


I got a couple of flashbacks to Ken's run from this show. "Think tank" was clued with the brain slang reference in his fourth game, and I remember looking through old posts for Ken's second game (which aired nearly four years before I joined) where someone asked if "distaff" could be acceptable for the FJ response.
Huh, maybe not? I was told earlier that below VVV was a 3-time champ (and, I guess, formerly Zach). If he lost, he'd be the substitute, right, since losing money doesn't count? If so, he'd be in the last Alex tourney iff someone didn't show up, but he'd be in the first post-Alex tourney otherwise. And if he won, he'd be in the first post-Alex tourney...so, either way, he was very likely to wind up in the first post-Alex tourney. I assume no-shows to tourneys are rare, although COVID could change things.

Literally this afternoon I was thinking of some self-deprecating fun Ken and the writers could have in future shows, particularly if Ken becomes permanent. CLUES I MISSED. Or, KEN'S STUMPERS, where nobody rang in. Or perhaps KEN'S LAST WORDS, clues with responses that were all one of Ken's correct FJ! responses.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cheezguyty »

Not surprisingly, this was the first regular-play game to feature two contestants who had won four or more previous times. There was a possibility that it could have happened back in 1994 had Dan Seiden gotten this FJ clue right, as Tom Nichols was brought back the following Monday for another chance after a faulty ruling in his fifth game (though I'm not sure if the producers/S&P would have been fine with the scenario where two contestants were both competing to become retired, or if they would have gone out of their way to prevent it).
jeff6286 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:02 pm
cheezguyty wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:32 pm Last Night at the Viper Room, the biography mentioned in the River Phoenix clue, was written by Season 16 contestant Gavin Edwards.

Also, the persnicketiness behind the Invisible Man/The Invisible Man ruling is completely unnecessary and frankly off-putting. "Wells" was given in the clue, so why would they assume that Zach was referring to a book by a different author?
The point isn't that you think Wells wrote the Ellison book or vice versa. The point is you need to know which title belongs to the Wells book and which title belongs to the Ellison book.
The title that Zach gave does belong to the Wells book. Nothing that he said was in any way incorrect. Yes, void of any context, "Invisible Man" is ambiguous and could refer to either work, in which case it is not unreasonable to interpret the lack of a leading article as intentional rather assume that a word has been removed. But given "Invisible Man" AND Wells's name, it is unfair to conclude that Zach was conflating the titles of the two works rather than assume that he was merely omitting the article (as is allowed in nearly every other context).

Yes, I know this has long been a "canonical exception" to the rule, but that doesn't necessitate a Gradgrindian enforcement of it. It makes sense to apply it in some cases, but this was not one of them.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles »

What's the preferred pronunciation for stone of scone? I'm pretty sure I heard Jill say Schoon. I've been pronouncing it like the baked good. Google has a pronunciation like the baked good but I'm not sure how Scottish their algorithm is.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

morbeedo wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:57 pm
Frida and Trotsky? Who knew! I had no idea so I said Kandinsky
I did, or at least, I had an inkling, thanks to this old FJ.
I'm smart and I want respect.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

MattKnowles wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 pm What's the preferred pronunciation for stone of scone? I'm pretty sure I heard Jill say Schoon. I've been pronouncing it like the baked good. Google has a pronunciation like the baked good but I'm not sure how Scottish their algorithm is.
I'm going with Schoon:

If there's one person who's -not- going to get it wrong, it's someone performing protocol in the name of Her Majesty
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Volante wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:05 am
MattKnowles wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 pm What's the preferred pronunciation for stone of scone? I'm pretty sure I heard Jill say Schoon. I've been pronouncing it like the baked good. Google has a pronunciation like the baked good but I'm not sure how Scottish their algorithm is.
I'm going with Schoon:

If there's one person who's -not- going to get it wrong, it's someone performing protocol in the name of Her Majesty
I'm going with Scoon. Who needs the h?
But from that video the most popular pronunciation is "Stone of Destiny"... :)
Shakespeare had yet a different idea at the end of Macbeth-
Spoiler
So, thanks to all at once and to each one,
Whom we invite to see us crown'd at Scone.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

I went for the first beatnik I could think of and might have been in trouble with "Ginzburg". I think because Ruth Vader Ginsburg never registered to me as the same surname that it had to be a different spelling. All of them are wrong, of course.

I never root against a player, but this is the outcome I was hoping for. I didn't enjoy Brian's faux Holzhauer technique of mining the bottom row clues to start the game because it seemed like he batted under 0.500 on them. If it wasn't so late, I'd check on that. I don't like it even when they do know them all because I might get 2% more if I get the vibe of the category first.

Has anyone noticed the guy hosting the game? Like the umpire at a baseball game, he does the best job if nobody notices him. I'm surprised at how much his interview patter resembles Alex's style.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mjhunt »

There is something I noticed about the daily doubles.

If Zach had done a true daily double (or at least $5,601) on DD1, he would have had a runaway, assuming he bet the same on the second one.

Zach is really fortunate he got FJ right. Imagine if joining Jack in the just bet $4,000 club had cost him the game.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept »

If they do a TOC this season, should they bring back Ken to host it? It would be odd to throw a random guest host into such a high stakes tournament.

Nice to see Zack get that TOC-clinching win, especially since Brian already secured his. Not the best matchup for Jill, but she did very well for herself. She went TDD in the Jeopardy round and I wonder if she would have been similarly aggressive in the DJ round.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

cheezguyty wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:38 pm Not surprisingly, this was the first regular-play game to feature two contestants who had won four or more previous times. There was a possibility that it could have happened back in 1994 had Dan Seiden gotten this FJ clue right, as Tom Nichols was brought back the following Monday for another chance after a faulty ruling in his fifth game (though I'm not sure if the producers/S&P would have been fine with the scenario where two contestants were both competing to become retired, or if they would have gone out of their way to prevent it).
jeff6286 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:02 pm
cheezguyty wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:32 pm Last Night at the Viper Room, the biography mentioned in the River Phoenix clue, was written by Season 16 contestant Gavin Edwards.

Also, the persnicketiness behind the Invisible Man/The Invisible Man ruling is completely unnecessary and frankly off-putting. "Wells" was given in the clue, so why would they assume that Zach was referring to a book by a different author?
The point isn't that you think Wells wrote the Ellison book or vice versa. The point is you need to know which title belongs to the Wells book and which title belongs to the Ellison book.
The title that Zach gave does belong to the Wells book. Nothing that he said was in any way incorrect. Yes, void of any context, "Invisible Man" is ambiguous and could refer to either work, in which case it is not unreasonable to interpret the lack of a leading article as intentional rather assume that a word has been removed. But given "Invisible Man" AND Wells's name, it is unfair to conclude that Zach was conflating the titles of the two works rather than assume that he was merely omitting the article (as is allowed in nearly every other context).

Yes, I know this has long been a "canonical exception" to the rule, but that doesn't necessitate a Gradgrindian enforcement of it. It makes sense to apply it in some cases, but this was not one of them.
I suppose if Dan had won his fourth game they would have waited until Tuesday to bring Tom back. Kind of sucked for the player who beat Dan. You beat a three time champ, now here’s a four timer.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

cheezguyty wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:38 pm
jeff6286 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:02 pm
cheezguyty wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:32 pm Last Night at the Viper Room, the biography mentioned in the River Phoenix clue, was written by Season 16 contestant Gavin Edwards.

Also, the persnicketiness behind the Invisible Man/The Invisible Man ruling is completely unnecessary and frankly off-putting. "Wells" was given in the clue, so why would they assume that Zach was referring to a book by a different author?
The point isn't that you think Wells wrote the Ellison book or vice versa. The point is you need to know which title belongs to the Wells book and which title belongs to the Ellison book.
The title that Zach gave does belong to the Wells book. Nothing that he said was in any way incorrect. Yes, void of any context, "Invisible Man" is ambiguous and could refer to either work, in which case it is not unreasonable to interpret the lack of a leading article as intentional rather assume that a word has been removed. But given "Invisible Man" AND Wells's name, it is unfair to conclude that Zach was conflating the titles of the two works rather than assume that he was merely omitting the article (as is allowed in nearly every other context).

Yes, I know this has long been a "canonical exception" to the rule, but that doesn't necessitate a Gradgrindian enforcement of it. It makes sense to apply it in some cases, but this was not one of them.
I'm not sure if I understand your argument. Normally it doesn't matter whether or not you give "the" but in this one specific case it does becuase there are two "Invisible Man" novels. Much like normally you don't need a President's first name but in some cases like Harrison or Roosevelt you should, because there are two of them. Or normally for almost any people, you don't need a middle name/initial but in the case of George HW Bush vs George 'W Bush, you do, because there are two of them.

Whether Wells is in the clue or not, you still have to give information that points to the Wells novel and not the Ellison one. You're saying Wells being in the clue changes things, but I don't see any reason that would be the case. Can you give an example where it would make sense to apply this rule as you imply at the end of your post?
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo »

Woof wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:42 pm
mas3cf wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:29 pm
morbeedo wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:57 pm
AntmanB wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:03 pm As Expected, a very good Game. Not a Lot of misses. Keeping those DDs away from Brian was Really Big.
And yet Zach kept going back to BIOGRAPHIES after the first DD was revealed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Frida and Trotsky? Who knew! I had no idea so I said Kandinsky
I had never heard that before, but I read the clue as "name a Russian in Mexico" and ran with it...
And Mexico in the ‘30s. Time and place both check out, but I’d never heard that factoid either.
Oh. I spent half my think time wondering if Diego Rivera was part Russian
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

twelvefootboy wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:31 am
I never root against a player, but this is the outcome I was hoping for. I didn't enjoy Brian's faux Holzhauer technique of mining the bottom row clues to start the game because it seemed like he batted under 0.500 on them. If it wasn't so late, I'd check on that. I don't like it even when they do know them all because I might get 2% more if I get the vibe of the category first.
With only very few exceptions (for example, if you are up against an extremely strong player), this is mathematically the best strategy for retaining board control - since the bottom row has the clues that are most likely to be a TS if you don't know it (and likewise the row where if you know it, it's the most likely that neither of the other two will)
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

talkingaway wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:37 pm Also painful - Papa's Got A Bran New Bag. Ken actually said, "I'm gonna need your help finishing it". If they had given the "d" in the clue, could they have counted it? I imagine it's a case of the heebie-jeebies that caused Jill to freeze, and I could see anyone new to the show doing that, too.
Yeah, my response was "What is d'new bag?" which I think would have been accepted. I wish Ken had had the presence of mind to say "We need the whole title" when Jill gave just "new bag".
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Picked Off »

Congrats to Brian on a nice run, to Zach for impressively picking up right where he left off — and to Jill, who held her own in a really tough spot. I appreciated Ken acknowledging that. I wondered if Zach keeping the door open for Brian late would burn him, but the solve made that a moot point.

I got FJ after 28 seconds of torturing myself thinking Kerouac was negbait and it might be Burroughs or Ginsberg. Glad I stayed put.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hansenkd »

seaborgium wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm Does that mean Zach was in a Joshua Brakhage situation, where winning or losing this game determined not whether he'd be in a ToC, but which one he'd be in?
No, I think if he lost he was out of both. He was below VVV, so would have been frozen out of the Alex-era one, and because his prior wins WERE in the Alex era, that would have disqualified him from the post-Alex one.
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Re: Thursday, January 28, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

Is there some reason I completely conk out on Kerouac's name literally every time it comes up? You'd think that'd be enough of a Hawley-Smoot to stick.

Even worse, it came up in my brain as "that one guy whose name I always forget".
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