Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
Picked Off
Jeopardy! Contestant
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by Picked Off »

One of the last events I went to in a theater in the before times was this one:

https://www.nyswritersinstitute.org/the ... lub-encore

So I wasn't missing FJ. I even precalled the Puzo reference leading up to the reveal.

Too bad for Sam. The tables were turned a day later with DD3. If he gets it right, maybe he forces a lockout. Although he negged, I thought it was an overly cautious bet considering the situation. You want a dagger there if you can get it, and FJ showed why.
Season 27 player and lifelong fan

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 4396
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by davey »

Picked Off wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:51 am
One of the last events I went to in a theater in the before times was this one:

https://www.nyswritersinstitute.org/the ... lub-encore

So I wasn't missing FJ. I even precalled the Puzo reference leading up to the reveal.

Too bad for Sam. The tables were turned a day later with DD3. If he gets it right, maybe he forces a lockout. Although he negged, I thought it was an overly cautious bet considering the situation. You want a dagger there if you can get it, and FJ showed why.
He's spending a lot of time recutting films! I never heard a thing about this Cotton Club one, but “The Godfather Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone," a recut Godfather III, went on demand last December...

User avatar
Picked Off
Jeopardy! Contestant
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by Picked Off »

davey wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:09 am
Picked Off wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:51 am
One of the last events I went to in a theater in the before times was this one:

https://www.nyswritersinstitute.org/the ... lub-encore

So I wasn't missing FJ. I even precalled the Puzo reference leading up to the reveal.

Too bad for Sam. The tables were turned a day later with DD3. If he gets it right, maybe he forces a lockout. Although he negged, I thought it was an overly cautious bet considering the situation. You want a dagger there if you can get it, and FJ showed why.
He's spending a lot of time recutting films! I never heard a thing about this Cotton Club one, but “The Godfather Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone," a recut Godfather III, went on demand last December...
I didn't have anything to compare it to because it was my first time watching The Cotton Club, but I really enjoyed it. I have seen Godfather Part III once (despite owning it) and am anxious to watch the new Coda for obvious reasons.
Season 27 player and lifelong fan

CyrusChan
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:31 am
Location: Queens

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by CyrusChan »

went with Peter Jackson over Coppola. oh well.

User avatar
mennoknight
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:10 am
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by mennoknight »

Michael Moorcock should be on every episode. The Eternal Champion Sequence should be taught in schools. Corum 4 Life.
I eat chicken. That's what I do.

polaris
Contributor
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:09 pm

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by polaris »

davey wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:23 am
It's worth noting that Mike Nichols never won a writing Oscar. In fact he doesn't have a writing credit on any of his movies...
There was a time when Francis Coppola was considered the greatest director working. In 1974 he released 2 great movies, The Godfather, Part Two and The Conversation. Now people are reporting they couldn't remember his name...
Oh, absolutely, FFC in the 1970's is a run of one director in one decade that will arguably never be topped.

I mean, depending on your personal tastes you might prefer, say, Brian de Palma's run in the 1980's but that's not the same thing

talkingaway
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 969
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:59 am

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by talkingaway »

davey wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:09 am
floridagator wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:00 am
TV clues have gotten unfair because the TV landscape has become so segmented. There are too many outlets and too many series to keep track of them.

In the old days, there were only three networks, and there would only ever be trivia questions about the biggest hits and longest-running series.
Harder, maybe. "Unfair" has nothing to do with it. One of these clues is on a J! obsession, and requires only recognizing a major character name. 3 of them were on those same old networks of yore...(Yes, I'm including Fox, it's been broadcasting to everybody's TV for 34 years...)
Most players are very comfortable with TV categories, witness how often they're the first categories they go for.
I think with pop culture - particularly TV - becoming more and more fragmented, questions today are broad and shallow, not narrow and deep like in the days of the three networks. I just read a long rambling article about the "old" MTV game show Remote Control, which basically existed in the days of three - perhaps four - networks. They mentioned that the TV trivia was fairly deep because there were few networks - everyone had the same foundation. While you might only need to know the names of 4-5 major actors and their characters for modern shows, knowing guest stars and more arcane trivia would have been the norm back then.

To some degree, you could say that about academic topics like literature, too. Take Shakespeare - I'm sure the average number of plays by The Bard read by a student today is lower than it was, say, 60 years ago. If you want to get Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Toni Morrison into the curriculum, you might just do 2 or 3 plays over high school, and not a play every year (or even semester).
davey wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:43 am
"Red Reddington" has appeared 6 times before on J! I might not have got it otherwise. "Sue Sylvester" has come up 5 times. Even "Pied Piper = Silicon Valley" has come up before but that's the only one I thought was really tough, delving into show content. though "naming a tech co." is a good hint and Silicon Valley was a great show, so,,,
I literally tracked all 60 clues from J! and DJ! in one episode - I found easy analogues to 59 of them in the Archive. The writers are creative in the way they present material, but in finding new material? There's only so much you can cover before it becomes, literally, trivial.
OrangeSAM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:35 pm
Volante wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:37 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:45 pm
Sam found it and lost 2000 while a solve would have been enough to cinch the match.
(Only because the last two $2Ks went TS)
The Talking Mime wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:18 pm
FJ was an instaget. "Oscars" + "sequel" pretty much leads to only The Godfather or Lord of the Rings, and I think Jackson's Oscars only came from the third entry.
Yep. He was only nominated for writing for the first one, and not even rated that for the second. Also, if you want to play inside baseball, there are three credited writers for the LotR movies.
alietr wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:53 pm
talkingaway wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:58 pm
"Dinosaur" for the T. Rex clue? I didn't see anything in that clue that said you had to be that specific. I mean, I guess "animal" could also be right, but is basically short circuiting the clue. Is Sue being a T. Rex that famous? I'd NHO her, but I knew museums are known for having incomplete dinosaurs. If they wanted to be nice, they could have put in something about small hands.
Yes, Sue is famously a T. Rex. But I would give you the points for just dinosaur.
I'm in the BMS crowd, though I'm finding it impossible to explain why in words...just a gut feeling
I'm in the BMS crowd, too. The clue did specify that Sue is/was 40 feet long.
I could accept that, but it's still my least favorite type of BMS. Knowing and/or logically figuring out just enough of a clue to be dangerous, but not enough to actually get it right. If they wanted a clue that would only accept T. Rex, which is reasonable, then they should have said "Sue is this SPECIES of animal". I'd clam, since I know a dinosaur isn't a species.

flemmingfan
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:40 am

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by flemmingfan »

BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:46 pm
Coryat: $37,200
46 R/0 W
DD: 2/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
LT: Delta, baths, September, Coulomb

I'm not good at movies, but "movie and its sequel win big at the Oscars" = The Godfather.
The Talking Mime wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:18 pm
Sad but not surprised to see nobody broke out a Sean Connery accent for the "S" words category. If I were on this episode, I'd be indulging myself with that every chance I got.
Mike called attention to this gag in the worst way possible. It would have been charming and funny had he said, while introducing the category, something to the effect of "And finally, we had Swords in the Jeopardy! round. This time around, we have 'S' Words. Hopefully Alex and Sean Connery are watching this episode together right now." Instead, he acted like he was ashamed of the joke.

Sorry to double down on the host criticism, but I also wish he had explained Roman Times $1000 after the stand-and-stare. The clue contained a subtle but crucial hint. Something like "July is named for Julius Caesar and August is named for Augustus, so Caligula was 'following a trend' by trying to rename September" would have educated the audience, shown how the clue was solvable, and provided a smooth ending point for the J! round.
On your second point, I don't think the host has to explain anything, if it happens (occasionally) that's a bonus. If something comes up that one is not familiar with look it up. That is one reason I like the show so much, it broadens one's horizons and increases one's knowledge.

yclept
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:43 am

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by yclept »

Mike is simply playing it straight. With that comes a good flow to the game, but it also means less of the quips we got from Alex and Ken. Though Ken played it fast and straight his first few games as well.

Mike is probably a smart guy but who knows how much trivia experience he has? I would rather him play it straight than try to force things. I believe we are going to see a lot of this straight hosting for as long as the guest hosts do the show. They just don’t quite know all the nuances of the game like Alex and Ken do. The guest hosts won’t have enough time to really dig their teeth into it.

And yeah - Mike probably had no idea he was even going to host the show. Ken had to move on to The Chase and they had a gap of time that needed filling.

Given all this, he has been fine. There is really nothing more we can expect from him.

BrigadierSolo13
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:40 am

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by BrigadierSolo13 »

A clue about Isadora Duncan that DOESN'T mention her death? No kidding... that seemed like a morbid J! staple :lol:

User avatar
TenPoundHammer
Otters are meant to swim
Posts: 8731
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by TenPoundHammer »

davey wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:41 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:30 am
I remember seeing a Wheel of Fortune episode almost 20 years ago where the answer to the puzzle was "Francis Ford and Sofia Coppola". The contestant had the whole puzzle filled in, but was ruled wrong because she said it "cuh-POH-la". Even at the time, I knew who both of the people in the puzzle were, and how to pronounce their names correctly.
That's harsh. I didn't know Wheel was stricter about such things than J!
Still nothing compared to this trainwreck of a round:

Ten Pound Hammer

This space for rent

User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 2571
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by Robert K S »

yclept wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:23 pm
Mike is simply playing it straight.
The opposite of the concerns some here had after that weekend trailer!

User avatar
econgator
Let's Go Mets!
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:32 am

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by econgator »

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:30 pm
Still nothing compared to this trainwreck of a round:
Damn ... that's harsh. 'Button sky", sure, that's wrong, but most of the others were fair.

I think at the end Pat just decided that "close enough" was finally reached.

User avatar
TenPoundHammer
Otters are meant to swim
Posts: 8731
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by TenPoundHammer »

econgator wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:35 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:30 pm
Still nothing compared to this trainwreck of a round:
Damn ... that's harsh. 'Button sky", sure, that's wrong, but most of the others were fair.

I think at the end Pat just decided that "close enough" was finally reached.
Counter argument: (6:45 if the timecode doesn't work)

Ten Pound Hammer

This space for rent

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 4396
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by davey »

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:30 pm
davey wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:41 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:30 am
I remember seeing a Wheel of Fortune episode almost 20 years ago where the answer to the puzzle was "Francis Ford and Sofia Coppola". The contestant had the whole puzzle filled in, but was ruled wrong because she said it "cuh-POH-la". Even at the time, I knew who both of the people in the puzzle were, and how to pronounce their names correctly.
That's harsh. I didn't know Wheel was stricter about such things than J!
Still nothing compared to this trainwreck of a round:

To be honest, I always assumed that word was a Yiddishism, so I had no problem with the way they were saying it...

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 4396
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by davey »

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:42 pm
econgator wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:35 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:30 pm
Still nothing compared to this trainwreck of a round:
Damn ... that's harsh. 'Button sky", sure, that's wrong, but most of the others were fair.

I think at the end Pat just decided that "close enough" was finally reached.
Counter argument: (6:45 if the timecode doesn't work)

Before the rise of dese nutz, obviously... :D

User avatar
twelvefootboy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1981
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 pm
Location: Tornado Alley / Southwest Missouri

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by twelvefootboy »

talkingaway wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:29 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:47 pm
The Physics DD pretty much required you to know the science I think.
Around 1800 William Herschel found that this type of radiation he called "radiant heat" is closely related to visible light.
People know about infrared in terms of greenhouse effect, and even radiant heaters, but nobody associates infrared with radiation. But they don't associate visible light with radiation either.

If you know the Coulomb clue, you've either had some academic exposure, or you learned it as a basic SI unit. It is rarely used in real life. Capacitors store charge, but are measured in units of farads. Batteries are in amp-hours, etc.. I could be mistaken about the relative obscurity of the Coulomb, but it seems like inside baseball to me.
If I'd been given a long time to think through the DD, I think I could have gotten there. As it was, I started with x-rays, but then read "closely related to visible light", and knew it had to be either UV or IR. I distinctly remember watching a 3-2-1 Contact show when I was little, and they had IR cameras that could detect body heat - and I've seen many variations of IR visualization through the years. If I'd thought of that, I would have gone with IR instead of my ultimate response of UV.

Coulomb was easy enough - second semester physics should contain some E&M, and Coulomb's Law is basically Newton's law of gravitation, but with electric charge instead of mass, and the ability to both attract and repel. Couple that with a little bit of circuitry work, where an electric current measures the rate of the flow of charge, and you get your Coulomb unit. I wouldn't know if you can buy anything with Coulombs in Radio Shack, but it was definitely a unit that was tested extensively on the AP test.
I withdraw my criticism of the Coulomb clue, realizing it was a bottom row clue. I always scold players for shooting guesses at the $2000 clues because they almost always require a depth of knowledge of the subject, as they should. I wasn't aware of Coulomb's contributions, and didn't even know his first name.
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.

User avatar
BigDaddyMatty
Save Me, Maggie!
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:05 am
Location: Wherever I May Roam
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by BigDaddyMatty »

yclept wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:23 pm
And yeah - Mike probably had no idea he was even going to host the show. Ken had to move on to The Chase and they had a gap of time that needed filling.
The narrative that Richards had no idea he was going to host and was just plucked from obscurity is almost certainly false.
Sprinkles are for winners.

talkingaway
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 969
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:59 am

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by talkingaway »

twelvefootboy wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:38 pm
talkingaway wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:29 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:47 pm
The Physics DD pretty much required you to know the science I think.
Around 1800 William Herschel found that this type of radiation he called "radiant heat" is closely related to visible light.
People know about infrared in terms of greenhouse effect, and even radiant heaters, but nobody associates infrared with radiation. But they don't associate visible light with radiation either.

If you know the Coulomb clue, you've either had some academic exposure, or you learned it as a basic SI unit. It is rarely used in real life. Capacitors store charge, but are measured in units of farads. Batteries are in amp-hours, etc.. I could be mistaken about the relative obscurity of the Coulomb, but it seems like inside baseball to me.
If I'd been given a long time to think through the DD, I think I could have gotten there. As it was, I started with x-rays, but then read "closely related to visible light", and knew it had to be either UV or IR. I distinctly remember watching a 3-2-1 Contact show when I was little, and they had IR cameras that could detect body heat - and I've seen many variations of IR visualization through the years. If I'd thought of that, I would have gone with IR instead of my ultimate response of UV.

Coulomb was easy enough - second semester physics should contain some E&M, and Coulomb's Law is basically Newton's law of gravitation, but with electric charge instead of mass, and the ability to both attract and repel. Couple that with a little bit of circuitry work, where an electric current measures the rate of the flow of charge, and you get your Coulomb unit. I wouldn't know if you can buy anything with Coulombs in Radio Shack, but it was definitely a unit that was tested extensively on the AP test.
I withdraw my criticism of the Coulomb clue, realizing it was a bottom row clue. I always scold players for shooting guesses at the $2000 clues because they almost always require a depth of knowledge of the subject, as they should. I wasn't aware of Coulomb's contributions, and didn't even know his first name.
Frankly, I didn't know his first name either. But basic units of measurement (and what they measure) are pretty standard J-fare. As a physics nerd, I think knowing the name, the unit, and the law is probably enough. And maybe knowing that gravity is only attractive, while Coloumb's Law allows for both attractive and repelling forces, depending on the sign of the charges. But I'd say "Coulomb's Law" would almost never be the response - always in the clue.

I'd say it was priced right at $2000. It's not the easiest response to pull out of your hat in a few seconds time.

User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 2571
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS) by Archivists

Post by Robert K S »

I agree the coulomb unit (note lowercase) is basic physics 101 but is rarely used in practice by electrical engineers.

Post Reply