Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Volante
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Looks like my 'in situ' would, at best, have gotten a BMS.

Insta FJ, I spent all the time wondering if Rodgers would acknowledge the college. I'm actually gonna miss him.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

MinnesotaMyron wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:41 pm I generally disagree with folks who claim a clue is "negbait", but I would be open to arguments in this case. I knew it, thanks to this FJ from many many years ago, but with "Utah" right there in the clue, you'd be hard pressed to guess anything but what the 3 contestants did.

Tacking "in California" after "university" would do a better job at pointing the players to the right response, although I suspect if you don't know it, you don't get it.
I agree with MM to disagree with a lot of the "negbait" claims, but in this case:

One of the luminaries who drove in the "Golden Spike" in Utah in 1869 was this man who later founded a university.

Why was Utah in this clue? Viewers, players, etc.. are presumed to know that this is referring to the trans-Con RR, but might not know it was somewhere in a Western state? I went with Stanford at first but just couldn't resist the NEGBAIT. Sure Brigham Young isn't a known Railroad mogul, but he (probably?) was a "luminary". And there could be dozens of ceremonial taps on the spike to maximize the hype, so Young likely would be at least a B-lister to include.

Better options: 1) remove Utah completely, done. 2) insert "Railroad" luminary, or magnate, or whatever and you can leave Utah, or 3) per MM, move the University out of freaking Utah, which wasn't needed to be mentioned :twisted:

If I researched this correctly, here's a J! guest host trivia clue: The National Park System for $2000
Spoiler
What is the only unrevealed clue out of 600 game clues delivered by Aaron Rogers? Well done, AR. You done jocks pround.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles »

45R. 3/4 on big clues. Missed bona fide and was trying to think of something with fidelis. I've seen the Stanford factoid about the golden spike before and got it from that. I forget the rules for it but I think I picked up a 4th podium win for this game 9600 + FJ.

Watching Half Baked helped me get bodega. Bo-de-ga.

Aaron did great and I'd put him in a tie for first place with Ken.

Some clues that I missed that I want to get next time are Horatio Nelson, Born Free, Dramatis Personae, glassmaking, and guinea.
The Talking Mime wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:12 pm "Everywhere is walking distance if you've got the time."
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49/50 states is basically everywhere.

Edit: Said Lakota instead of Sioux. Judges?

Second edit: Had 3 things from this game on my list of things I get confused. Mammoth/Mastodon. Gulf of Bothnia/Gulf of Finland. Into Thin Air/Into the Wild. Managed to get all 3.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

MattKnowles wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:54 pm Edit: Said Lakota instead of Sioux. Judges?
I'd count it.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

I didn't have a chance on this one, making it a 1/5 week on FJs with three I could/should have gotten. But after 13 weeks of being at least 4/5, I was due.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Aaron Rodgers has really impressed me. He seemed a little stiff and lethargic at the beginning of his run, but that seems to have come from leaning a little too hard on his note-to-self to slow down. He grew into the role quickly and has really done a terrific job. I do think he's a little mush-mouthed, but it's only noticeable when I notice it. I also think I caught him in a minor pronunciation error with Gulf of Bothnia. He used a voiced th sound (like the th in bathe) rather than a voiceless one (like the th in bath). I wouldn't have noticed except it made me wonder whether I'd been mispronouncing that word. But online dictionaries agree with me. Voiceless th as in bath. Bothnia.

The Born Free TS made me feel old. I never saw the movie, but in the early 70s you couldn't escape knowing about the movie and being able to sing the first few words of the theme song and hum the rest.

I wonder how often mastodon is the right response in a clue that doesn't explicitly rule out mammoth. I believe the most recent example is from this game in June 2017. The clue refers to a "breast tooth" species. On a DD I think at least half of us would have time to make the MASTectomy and orthoDONtia connection or something similar and guess correctly. But this wasn't a DD so it seems almost inevitable that one contestant negged with mammoth before another picked up the rebound. In general, it would seem that if you think a clue is a coin flip for mammoth/mastodon, there's a 95% chance it's mammoth and a 5% chance you missed a crucial TOM.

This is the third FJ this week where I've talked myself out of the correct response into an incorrect one. Other than that, I went 5 for 5. :roll:
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

opusthepenguin wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:41 pm I also think I caught him in a minor pronunciation error with Gulf of Bothnia. He used a voiced th sound (like the th in bathe) rather than a voiceless one (like the th in bath). I wouldn't have noticed except it made me wonder whether I'd been mispronouncing that word. But online dictionaries agree with me. Voiceless th as in bath. Bothnia.
I caught that, too.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

econgator wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:15 pm
MattKnowles wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:54 pm Edit: Said Lakota instead of Sioux. Judges?
I'd count it.
Absolutely.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mahatma »

MinnesotaMyron wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 pm
econgator wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:15 pm
MattKnowles wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:54 pm Edit: Said Lakota instead of Sioux. Judges?
I'd count it.
Absolutely.
I'd say it's a far better answer than 'Sioux'.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cthulhu »

Instaget FJ, and I’m of the opinion that “Utah” in the clue was some modest negbait - but one that a J! player should be able to sidestep. Of course, I wasn’t under the lights so what do I know? ;)

Really impressed by Aaron this week.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by threearruda »

MarkBarrett wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:56 pm
The FJ! clue gave me a pen down no-doubter with no time wasted thinking about it anymore. One of the best ways to prepare of the show? Watch the show.

A couple of relevant prior FJ! clue:
Spoiler

#8021, aired 2019-06-24 COLLEGES & UNIVERSITIES: Starting a university after his only son died in 1884, this man said, "The children of California shall be our children"
#2383, aired 1995-01-04 UNIVERSITIES: The golden spike removed after the May 10, 1869 ceremony is now at this university
Amen to that, a no-doubter for me as well attributed to seeing Stanford + railroad at lest once or twice before.. the 2019 Teen clue immediately came to mind as well. Congrats to Patrick for win #3.

Loved AR and certainly won't object if he gets the full-time nod.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Foretopman »

I am tempted to call "BS" on "Chapters in non-fiction books" $800.

I have frequently read that Darwin never actually used the phrase "survival of the fittest"; that it was Herbert Spencer who invented it. In my facsimile copy of the first edition of "On the origin of species" the title of chapter IV is simply "Natural Selection".
Unless someone can show me that Darwin changed that title in later editions to add "or the survival of the fittest", I have to conclude that the writers are just making stuff up. This is yet another sign of the declining quality coming out of the writers' room.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:02 pm I am tempted to call "BS" on "Chapters in non-fiction books" $800.

I have frequently read that Darwin never actually used the phrase "survival of the fittest"; that it was Herbert Spencer who invented it. In my facsimile copy of the first edition of "On the origin of species" the title of chapter IV is simply "Natural Selection".
Unless someone can show me that Darwin changed that title in later editions to add "or the survival of the fittest", I have to conclude that the writers are just making stuff up. This is yet another sign of the declining quality coming out of the writers' room.
If you're right--and I have the same recollection you do about Darwin never using the phrase--I wouldn't think the writers made it up. I'd suspect they got it from an edition of the book that had added the phrase to the chapter heading so readers would know where Darwin addresses the concept.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Foretopman »

opusthepenguin wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:46 pm
Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:02 pm I am tempted to call "BS" on "Chapters in non-fiction books" $800.

I have frequently read that Darwin never actually used the phrase "survival of the fittest"; that it was Herbert Spencer who invented it. In my facsimile copy of the first edition of "On the origin of species" the title of chapter IV is simply "Natural Selection".
Unless someone can show me that Darwin changed that title in later editions to add "or the survival of the fittest", I have to conclude that the writers are just making stuff up. This is yet another sign of the declining quality coming out of the writers' room.
If you're right--and I have the same recollection you do about Darwin never using the phrase--I wouldn't think the writers made it up. I'd suspect they got it from an edition of the book that had added the phrase to the chapter heading so readers would know where Darwin addresses the concept.
Oh, I see what you're saying: you're suggesting that the addition was made by an editor, not by Darwin. Right? OK, I guess I can see that happening. I will give the writers a pass on this one, then. Thanks for the perspective.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:02 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:46 pm
Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:02 pm I am tempted to call "BS" on "Chapters in non-fiction books" $800.

I have frequently read that Darwin never actually used the phrase "survival of the fittest"; that it was Herbert Spencer who invented it. In my facsimile copy of the first edition of "On the origin of species" the title of chapter IV is simply "Natural Selection".
Unless someone can show me that Darwin changed that title in later editions to add "or the survival of the fittest", I have to conclude that the writers are just making stuff up. This is yet another sign of the declining quality coming out of the writers' room.
If you're right--and I have the same recollection you do about Darwin never using the phrase--I wouldn't think the writers made it up. I'd suspect they got it from an edition of the book that had added the phrase to the chapter heading so readers would know where Darwin addresses the concept.
Oh, I see what you're saying: you're suggesting that the addition was made by an editor, not by Darwin. Right? OK, I guess I can see that happening. I will give the writers a pass on this one, then. Thanks for the perspective.
Appears in the 6th and final edition, per Project Gutenberg, from 1872. The first and second editions also on Gutenberg do not have it. I do not know about ed.s 3-5
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2009

(Amusingly, the 6th was the edition that dropped the 'On' from the title :lol: )
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy »

I've struggled with more games this season than most, so I was pleased that I kicked butt on this game. 41R, 2W, including 3-for-3 on DDs and Coryat of over $35K.

LT on (Clarence) Birdseye, (ruffed) grouse, Carpathian Mountains, Gulf of Bothnia (from a long-ago J! quiz), Adm. Nelson, and (from the long-ago movie) "Born Free," for $9,200 in trash...which I converted to a win from the fourth podium with a sole get on FJ.

I never got sidetracked by "Utah" in the clue because I remember from American History classes that the Golden Spike was driven in Promontory Point, Utah (or as the Smothers Brothers called it, "Promissory Note") and that it was Leland Sanford who took part. Never gave Brigham Young a single thought. It's nice to KNOW one for a change and not have to go through the mental gymnastics of TOM to piece it together.

Congrats to Patrick on a solid third win and his impending installation in the J! Players HoF. Wonder how far he can take his streak....
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Foretopman »

Volante wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:19 pm [snip}

Appears in the 6th and final edition, per Project Gutenberg, from 1872. The first and second editions also on Gutenberg do not have it. I do not know about ed.s 3-5
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2009

(Amusingly, the 6th was the edition that dropped the 'On' from the title :lol: )
Well, that's interesting (the chapter title changing in the sxith edition). Dropping the "On" seems to be just PG's doing.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Volante wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:19 pm
Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:02 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:46 pm
Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:02 pm I am tempted to call "BS" on "Chapters in non-fiction books" $800.

I have frequently read that Darwin never actually used the phrase "survival of the fittest"; that it was Herbert Spencer who invented it. In my facsimile copy of the first edition of "On the origin of species" the title of chapter IV is simply "Natural Selection".
Unless someone can show me that Darwin changed that title in later editions to add "or the survival of the fittest", I have to conclude that the writers are just making stuff up. This is yet another sign of the declining quality coming out of the writers' room.
If you're right--and I have the same recollection you do about Darwin never using the phrase--I wouldn't think the writers made it up. I'd suspect they got it from an edition of the book that had added the phrase to the chapter heading so readers would know where Darwin addresses the concept.
Oh, I see what you're saying: you're suggesting that the addition was made by an editor, not by Darwin. Right? OK, I guess I can see that happening. I will give the writers a pass on this one, then. Thanks for the perspective.
Appears in the 6th and final edition, per Project Gutenberg, from 1872. The first and second editions also on Gutenberg do not have it. I do not know about ed.s 3-5
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2009

(Amusingly, the 6th was the edition that dropped the 'On' from the title :lol: )
Excellent work! Thank you. And that came out in 1872, so Darwin was still alive and presumably able to oversee the changes. I think Foretopman and I may safely drop any objections we might have.
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:28 pm
Volante wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:19 pm [snip}

Appears in the 6th and final edition, per Project Gutenberg, from 1872. The first and second editions also on Gutenberg do not have it. I do not know about ed.s 3-5
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2009

(Amusingly, the 6th was the edition that dropped the 'On' from the title :lol: )
Well, that's interesting (the chapter title changing in the sxith edition). Dropping the "On" seems to be just PG's doing.
Darwin didn't coin the phrase, but he did adopt it and it was widely used. So it makes sense that he would want to identify the chapter that covers the concept in the definitive edition of his book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest
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Re: Friday, April 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Foretopman wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:28 pm
Volante wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:19 pm [snip}

Appears in the 6th and final edition, per Project Gutenberg, from 1872. The first and second editions also on Gutenberg do not have it. I do not know about ed.s 3-5
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2009

(Amusingly, the 6th was the edition that dropped the 'On' from the title :lol: )
Well, that's interesting (the chapter title changing in the sxith edition). Dropping the "On" seems to be just PG's doing.
PG, like j-archive, copies as is, warts and all:
http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/fra ... &pageseq=1
That's a slideshow of the 6th ed., page i and iii show the title as "The Origin of Species"
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