Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

ParrotRob wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:16 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm
jeff6286 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:51 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
Well that’s great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't think it's one thing or the other for me. It's just my understanding. It would appear to be the understanding of TPTB at Jeopardy at this point as well since they're willing to accept "gypsy" as a correct response. If someone wants to convince me (and them) that that this should change, I'm open to that. I'm open to not using the OK symbol anymore as well and not wearing my aloha shirts. But it's going to take more than a few declarative statements to make me change.

You're already convinced. That's great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Aloha shirts? Wait, what? That's a bad thing now?
I wish I could say I just threw that in as a goof, because that would be in character for me. Unfortunately, as Cecil Adams once said, reality has me outgunned. Read it and weep:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-ex ... 1591635085

I can totally understand why someone named ParrotRob would be concerned.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

TMZ Live covered the 3 controversy on today's show: https://www.tmz.com/2021/04/29/jeopardy ... disavowal/
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

MarkBarrett wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:25 pm TMZ Live covered the 3 controversy on today's show: https://www.tmz.com/2021/04/29/jeopardy ... disavowal/
I love the part that says, "Even if that's true". Even if, you know, you think Kelly's not lying. The article also notes his holding up one finger then two on previous days as "seemingly supporting his explanation". Sheesh. If I were Kelly I'd be really pissed.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Ironhorse »

I suspect one reason for the intense backlash over the accusations is a fear that this is something that could happen to anyone, even then. I certainly agree the Sinatra thing doesn't look good, but I was talking about this with my wife. She (to her credit, frankly) has no background knowledge of the OK symbol, the boogaloo boys, etc., and when I began explaining all this background information, it struck her as ad hoc and felt that anybody could have stumbled upon one of these unwittingly. I can sympathize with this fear. Somebody mentioned the Aloha shirts earlier; when that is invoked, that's something that 95% of the population would be unaware of the alt right associations.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Johnblue »

Frank Sinatra is a symbol of White oppression? And yes, Kelly should be pissed at that tmz article but then again, tmz isn’t very good.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Ironhorse »

Johnblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:32 pm Frank Sinatra is a symbol of White oppression? And yes, Kelly should be pissed at that tmz article but then again, tmz isn’t very good.
The argument isn't that Sinatra himself is, but rather that Sinatra is there displaying a gesture that was subsequently co-opted by nefarious forces, long after his death.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Ironhorse wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:42 pm
Johnblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:32 pm Frank Sinatra is a symbol of White oppression? And yes, Kelly should be pissed at that tmz article but then again, tmz isn’t very good.
The argument isn't that Sinatra himself is, but rather that Sinatra is there displaying a gesture that was subsequently co-opted by nefarious forces, long after his death.
That's just a fact, yeah? What's the argument that's being made around that fact? Because to me it seems at least as likely to be exculpatory as otherwise.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Ironhorse »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:57 pm
Ironhorse wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:42 pm
Johnblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:32 pm Frank Sinatra is a symbol of White oppression? And yes, Kelly should be pissed at that tmz article but then again, tmz isn’t very good.
The argument isn't that Sinatra himself is, but rather that Sinatra is there displaying a gesture that was subsequently co-opted by nefarious forces, long after his death.
That's just a fact, yeah? What's the argument that's being made around that fact? Because to me it seems at least as likely to be exculpatory as otherwise.
Here I don't consider myself versed enough in the nuances of the debate over that gesture. Apparently there's a fine distinction between displaying it ironically/non-ironically that I can't even begin to parse.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by pamelajaye »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:06 pm
pamelajaye wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:59 pm I noticed earlier this week, since I'm from Boston, that Johnny Gilbert was mispronouncing Winthrop, although Anderson wasn't. I'm sure Johnny has a bigger job than I think he does, but does anybody tell him how to pronounce these obscure Town names?
I had problems myself when I tried towns in Rhode Island. But at least I know how to pronounce Narragansett. And Chepachet. I do not know if that's the correct spelling. It's what Google gave me.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by pamelajaye »

Ironhorse wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:00 pm I suspect one reason for the intense backlash over the accusations is a fear that this is something that could happen to anyone, even then. I certainly agree the Sinatra thing doesn't look good, but I was talking about this with my wife. She (to her credit, frankly) has no background knowledge of the OK symbol, the boogaloo boys, etc., and when I began explaining all this background information, it struck her as ad hoc and felt that anybody could have stumbled upon one of these unwittingly. I can sympathize with this fear. Somebody mentioned the Aloha shirts earlier; when that is invoked, that's something that 95% of the population would be unaware of the alt right associations.
I may be asking the wrong question here, but isn't that the definition of dog whistle? Only the people you want to put down will recognize it as a put-down?
I admit I did not read the whole thread. And so I know absolutely nothing about aloha shirts. Or Frank Sinatra.

And honestly my brain hasn't been updated with the latest correct terminology of the Romani people. I don't even know if Google spelled that right. I actually answered with the dreaded G word not knowing it was dreaded and then added oh there's another name... Roma... ?

I can't remember which word that started with r finally made its way into my brain and out of my mouth, but given that I just don't come across this particular group of people in conversation or otherwise, pretty much ever, knowing their correct name was not upmost in my vocabulary. If I think of them at all I tend to think of them as those people who are from Hungary but aren't, really. And then I think of Eva Gabor. Sometime back in the 90s my then husband mentioned having encountered some of them in central Massachusetts of all places. I thought that was strange. But what do I know? I don't think I have ever met any.

So it does look as if I am arguing one side of the Hand Gesture argument and the other side of the Names For Ethnic Groups argument. Oops?

Don't people who hold one finger up in the air for one game, two fingers up in the air for two games, follow it with three fingers up in the air for 3 games? Unless they are deaf in which case the sign for the number 3 is not the same as hearing people who tend to use three adjoining fingers. Wow my brain is tired now.

By the way, somebody over on Facebook says that Johnny Gilbert does his announcing from home now? That might explain why he didn't correct Winthrop after hearing Anderson say it the right way. Like maybe he didn't hear it?
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by pamelajaye »

Ironhorse wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:00 pm I suspect one reason for the intense backlash over the accusations is a fear that this is something that could happen to anyone, even then. I certainly agree the Sinatra thing doesn't look good, but I was talking about this with my wife. She (to her credit, frankly) has no background knowledge of the OK symbol, the boogaloo boys, etc., and when I began explaining all this background information, it struck her as ad hoc and felt that anybody could have stumbled upon one of these unwittingly. I can sympathize with this fear. Somebody mentioned the Aloha shirts earlier; when that is invoked, that's something that 95% of the population would be unaware of the alt right associations.


I may be asking the wrong question here, but isn't that the definition of dog whistle? Only the people you want to put down will recognize it as a put-down? ( for the record I'm English Irish Scottish and German. So I may not have heard many dog whistles as my ears have the improper Spectrum)
I admit I did not read the whole thread. And so I know absolutely nothing about aloha shirts. Or Frank Sinatra.

And honestly my brain hasn't been updated with the latest correct terminology of the Romani people. I don't even know if Google spelled that right. I actually answered with the dreaded G word not knowing it was dreaded and then added oh there's another name... Roma... ?

I can't remember which word that started with r finally made its way into my brain and out of my mouth, but given that I just don't come across this particular group of people in conversation or otherwise, pretty much ever, knowing their correct name was not upmost in my vocabulary. If I think of them at all I tend to think of them as those people who are from Hungary but aren't, really. And then I think of Eva Gabor. Sometime back in the 90s my then husband mentioned having encountered some of them in central Massachusetts of all places. I thought that was strange. But what do I know? I don't think I have ever met any.

So it does look as if I am arguing one side of the Hand Gesture argument and the other side of the Names For Ethnic Groups argument. Oops?

Don't people who hold one finger up in the air for one game, two fingers up in the air for two games, follow it with three fingers up in the air for 3 games? Unless they are deaf in which case the sign for the number 3 is not the same as hearing people who tend to use three adjoining fingers. Wow my brain is tired now.

By the way, somebody over on Facebook says that Johnny Gilbert does his announcing from home now? That might explain why he didn't correct Winthrop after hearing Anderson say it the right way. Like maybe he didn't hear it?

oh crap I have an errant close quote tag. Standby while I fix it. Okay I think I moved it. Nope. Now I'm quoting myself for no apparent reason.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

pamelajaye wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:06 pm I may be asking the wrong question here, but isn't that the definition of dog whistle? Only the people you want to put down will recognize it as a put-down?
No, a dog whistle is meant to be heard only by the people who agree with you, and is supposed to go right by the ones you're insulting as an innocent comment.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

alietr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:46 am
pamelajaye wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:06 pm I may be asking the wrong question here, but isn't that the definition of dog whistle? Only the people you want to put down will recognize it as a put-down?
No, a dog whistle is meant to be heard only by the people who agree with you, and is supposed to go right by the ones you're insulting as an innocent comment.
I would counter that it isn't necessarily not going to be heard by the people you are insulting, so much as it is going to be couched in such plausibly innocent language as to be deniable to the much larger group of people who are neither the audience nor the target of the dog whistle.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

brick wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:48 am
alietr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:46 am
pamelajaye wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:06 pm I may be asking the wrong question here, but isn't that the definition of dog whistle? Only the people you want to put down will recognize it as a put-down?
No, a dog whistle is meant to be heard only by the people who agree with you, and is supposed to go right by the ones you're insulting as an innocent comment.
I would counter that it isn't necessarily not going to be heard by the people you are insulting, so much as it is going to be couched in such plausibly innocent language as to be deniable to the much larger group of people who are neither the audience nor the target of the dog whistle.
I like it. I remember being fooled by some of the "states' rights" talk back in my naive youth because I thought we were talking about, you know, states' rights. And having a somewhat anti-federalist bent at the time, I thought that sounded good. Now that I am in my naive dotage I know there was, at least sometimes, a subtext that whooshed right by me.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

opusthepenguin wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:06 pm

I like it. I remember being fooled by some of the "states' rights" talk back in my naive youth because I thought we were talking about, you know, states' rights. And having a somewhat anti-federalist bent at the time, I thought that sounded good. Now that I am in my naive dotage I know there was, at least sometimes, a subtext that whooshed right by me.
I will be stealing "naïve dotage" and adding it to my repertoire. Thank you.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

Maybe the real treasure was the friends we lost along the way
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

brick wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:41 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:06 pm

I like it. I remember being fooled by some of the "states' rights" talk back in my naive youth because I thought we were talking about, you know, states' rights. And having a somewhat anti-federalist bent at the time, I thought that sounded good. Now that I am in my naive dotage I know there was, at least sometimes, a subtext that whooshed right by me.
I will be stealing "naïve dotage" and adding it to my repertoire. Thank you.
I've seen "anecdotage" defined as the time in life when one constantly repeats the same old stories.

I have to say I don't see the point of the finger display. We know he won three times; Johnny Gilbert* has just reminded us. Is it perhaps to make the number real in a way that merely pronouncing it is sadly powerless to?

My earlier comment about the potential white supremacy implications of matching eternity symbols was based on my assumption that there were two people involved. On rewatching, I see that they were three, rendering senseless my initial surmise. If you don't remember my earlier comment, that's fine, too.

*I'm abashed to admit I had to search to see if it was "Gilbert" or "Olson". Congrats nonetheless, Johnny, on a brilliant career and long may it continue.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:28 pm
ParrotRob wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:16 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm
jeff6286 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:51 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
Well that’s great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't think it's one thing or the other for me. It's just my understanding. It would appear to be the understanding of TPTB at Jeopardy at this point as well since they're willing to accept "gypsy" as a correct response. If someone wants to convince me (and them) that that this should change, I'm open to that. I'm open to not using the OK symbol anymore as well and not wearing my aloha shirts. But it's going to take more than a few declarative statements to make me change.

You're already convinced. That's great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Aloha shirts? Wait, what? That's a bad thing now?
I wish I could say I just threw that in as a goof, because that would be in character for me. Unfortunately, as Cecil Adams once said, reality has me outgunned. Read it and weep:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-ex ... 1591635085

I can totally understand why someone named ParrotRob would be concerned.
"Boogaloo"? Who makes this stuff up?
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

ParrotRob wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:28 pm
ParrotRob wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:16 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm
jeff6286 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:51 pm

Well that’s great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't think it's one thing or the other for me. It's just my understanding. It would appear to be the understanding of TPTB at Jeopardy at this point as well since they're willing to accept "gypsy" as a correct response. If someone wants to convince me (and them) that that this should change, I'm open to that. I'm open to not using the OK symbol anymore as well and not wearing my aloha shirts. But it's going to take more than a few declarative statements to make me change.

You're already convinced. That's great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Aloha shirts? Wait, what? That's a bad thing now?
I wish I could say I just threw that in as a goof, because that would be in character for me. Unfortunately, as Cecil Adams once said, reality has me outgunned. Read it and weep:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-ex ... 1591635085

I can totally understand why someone named ParrotRob would be concerned.
"Boogaloo"? Who makes this stuff up?
Whoever put out "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo" back in the '80s. :|
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

60 R
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