Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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AFRET CMS
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

seaborgium wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:08 am
BrigadierSolo13 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:56 am I must say, writing any clue, FJ or not, that contains the words "may have been" is not exactly factually sound. James I may have been in Bora Bora for all we know. I'd expect whoever did the research for the clue to know, and not include this supposition if they didn't know.

Did it affect the history knowledge needed to parse this FJ? Nah. It just makes for a clue I found to be lacking in precision.
Takes me back to my losing FJ: https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3135
And mine ......
https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5577
Turns out there are several disputed theories about the origin of the name. I was more familiar a different theory ("fils Caron") and quickly eliminated their desired correct response. In my post-game correspondence the decision was that the "may have" phrase qualified their desired response as correct, since there is no proof one way or another.

I really dislike the phrase.

I also rabidly preach the "Put down something -- anything" philosophy, as going with an response I thought to be incorrect when I ran out time trying to think of a better one would have been the right thing to do.
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.
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AFRET CMS
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

astrohip wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 am
MarkBarrett wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:08 pmThe CC had "weight" for the Milton clue. :lol:
What the heck is going on with the captions? The captions on Jeopardy were always perfect, always, for years. From the spelling, to mispronunciations, they always had them spot-on.

Now I see a mistake or two a week. Weight instead of wait. And many more. We've gone from none a year, to 100+ a year.

What happened?
I see it many other shows also. In movies released a decade or more ago, it's obvious sometimes that the captioner misheard or misunderstood the dialogue. Since scripts haven't been typed for ages, it made we wonder they they didn't simply use the script as the basis for the captions.

But lately I've been wondering if the CC process may be becoming more automated with speech-to-text software. That might account for some of the silly errors where just about any human would have recognized the context.
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.
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Robert K S
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing
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floridagator
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

Ironhorse wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:42 pm Poll request on black sheep, black sheep vs. baa baa black sheep if there's room.
Can we also do whether you know the children's game as duck duck goose or duck duck grey duck?

davey wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:04 pm
Neither James I of Scotland...nor Macduff...was likely to be in Shakespeare's audience.
Macduff kills Macbeth, but it's Malcolm who ascends to the throne at the end of the play.
That needs to be marked as a spoiler.
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.
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mikebdoss
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mikebdoss »

AFRET CMS wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:28 pm I see it many other shows also. In movies released a decade or more ago, it's obvious sometimes that the captioner misheard or misunderstood the dialogue. Since scripts haven't been typed for ages, it made we wonder they they didn't simply use the script as the basis for the captions.

But lately I've been wondering if the CC process may be becoming more automated with speech-to-text software. That might account for some of the silly errors where just about any human would have recognized the context.
In many shows from 20+ years ago (I see it on Seinfeld and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine), the captions are purposely rewritten, usually substituting a simpler phrase that means the same thing as what the actor actually spoke. It's infuriating to me as a person with generally good hearing who has captions on for the sake of clarity.

Live TV absolutely uses speech-to-text, though I'm pretty sure some (like baseball games, for example) have a human available for weird words, phrases and names. Recorded shows lately seem like they could be using it, with someone going through afterward to clean it up, but it's hard to tell. There's so much content out there that I'm sure it's done a multitude of ways, depending on the captioning company used and how good they are.
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Lefty
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

AFRET CMS wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:54 pm
seaborgium wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:08 am
BrigadierSolo13 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:56 am I must say, writing any clue, FJ or not, that contains the words "may have been" is not exactly factually sound. James I may have been in Bora Bora for all we know. I'd expect whoever did the research for the clue to know, and not include this supposition if they didn't know.

Did it affect the history knowledge needed to parse this FJ? Nah. It just makes for a clue I found to be lacking in precision.
Takes me back to my losing FJ: https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3135
And mine ......
https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5577
Turns out there are several disputed theories about the origin of the name. I was more familiar a different theory ("fils Caron") and quickly eliminated their desired correct response. In my post-game correspondence the decision was that the "may have" phrase qualified their desired response as correct, since there is no proof one way or another.

I really dislike the phrase.
This FJ produced a whole CF, but the clue itself did not help any.

Of all vague words with which to pin, the vaguest are these--"it may have been".
I'm smart and I want respect.
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by trainman »

mikebdoss wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:02 am In many shows from 20+ years ago (I see it on Seinfeld and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine), the captions are purposely rewritten, usually substituting a simpler phrase that means the same thing as what the actor actually spoke. It's infuriating to me as a person with generally good hearing who has captions on for the sake of clarity.
They did that because they were trying to keep to a specific reading rate, the premise in the early days of captioning being that many people weren't used to reading while they watched TV -- in particular, deaf people who were more fluent in sign language than in written English.

Over the years, target reading rates were gradually increased. And when I started working as a closed-captioner in the late 1990s, we were forbidden to do any rewriting -- all we were allowed to do was leave words out. Finally, we had one prime-time show where the show runner specifically wanted the captions to contain every single word, and between that and some other research and surveys, the reading rate stuff went by the wayside.
Live TV absolutely uses speech-to-text, though I'm pretty sure some (like baseball games, for example) have a human available for weird words, phrases and names.
My understanding is that most live programming on the major networks is still being captioned by a stenographer (i.e., someone akin to a court reporter, with a computer doing a simultaneous translation of the keystrokes from their special keyboard), rather than a speech-to-text solution. Stenocaptioning can be easy to spot if you see a typo, especially if it results in a keystroke pattern that doesn't resolve into a word.

It's been over a decade and a half since I worked as a captioner -- but I'm still in occasional touch with someone who's still in the industry, and I messaged them recently to ask if they knew anything about the current J! caption situation. No response yet.
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Imagine being a captioner trying to rewrite Hamilton for a reduced reading rate.
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mikebdoss
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mikebdoss »

trainman wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:28 am It's been over a decade and a half since I worked as a captioner -- but I'm still in occasional touch with someone who's still in the industry, and I messaged them recently to ask if they knew anything about the current J! caption situation. No response yet.
Fascinating stuff, thank you for the insight!
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

Robert K S wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 am Imagine being a captioner trying to rewrite Hamilton for a reduced reading rate.
When I saw the play, I had a very tough time. When I saw it on TV, I got a lot more out of it.
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by astrohip »

trainman wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:28 amIt's been over a decade and a half since I worked as a captioner -- but I'm still in occasional touch with someone who's still in the industry, and I messaged them recently to ask if they knew anything about the current J! caption situation. No response yet.
Thanks. Curious to hear what you find out.
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo »

Loved the story about the daughter stealing her father's spot on Jeopardy! (Poor schmuck thought this would be his year!) Now what does happen to a dream deferred?

This was my dream board but I'll admit to being a bit flummoxed by the wording of Final Jeopardy and unsure which regnal number to write down. Went with James VI and also expected more of a gloss from Bill Whitaker
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Re: Friday, May 7, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

59 R (Missed Play That Folky Music $2000.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
Douglas Squasoni
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