I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me back

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jaxjags
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I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me back

Post by jaxjags »

If I do manage to win the Teen Tournament, I wouldn't be invited for the ToC (unless I managed to, I guess, earn over 75k, which would be ridiculous). I know that $75k is a lot of money and would be very, very, very helpful for college, but I would just feel that it would leave me with wanting a little more. I probably shouldn't think like this, but I do wish they would invite the teen tournament winner back, maybe increase the amount of people in each ToC or something. I know that regular jeopardy players are usually much better than TT winners, as history has shown, but again, I just feel like it would leave me wanting more, and the only other way I would get called back is if they did another special tournament, like a reunion or another UToC. IDK how to feel about this, I know that I would definitely go to the audition if I am able to, I just don't know if the way I'm feeling is crazy or rational.

Your thoughts?

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Rex Kramer
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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by Rex Kramer »

Rest assured, your dilemma is perfectly rational. Other teens and even kids have had to face it. Some have decided to wait until they were old enough to try for the College Tournament or regular Jeopardy! As an aside, Kevin Marshall chose to try out for regular Jeopardy! instead of a College Tournament when he was in college for similar reasons -- only in his case, it wasn't not being invited to the ToC, since College Champs are, but not having the opportunity to play more than four games, which Kevin eventually did.

Others have just decided to go for it while they could. After all, there is no guarantee Jeopardy! will even be around when you are old enough to play regular J!. What if Alex quits next year and then ratings plummet? Maddie Suchard, who dominated her Kids' Week and undoubtedly would be a dominant player in regular J! when she grows up (or, frankly, probably even right now)*, chose to play Kids' Week rather than wait X-number of years for a shot at regular J! just for that reason.

So don't feel weird for asking yourself the question, and don't worry that there's a right or wrong answer -- just one you feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

Rex

*Jeez, her game was almost 7 years ago! She practically is grown up now!
Last edited by Rex Kramer on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by bpmod »

I could never have said it better than Rex, so I'll just say ditto to that.

And, above all, whatever route you follow, have fun doing it.

Brian
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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by legendneverdies »

THey actually did invite the Teen champs to the TofC from 1987-2000, and invited all the Teen champions to the Ultimate TofC in early 2005(even those from 2000-2005 who didn't get to play in a regular TofC).

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jaxjags
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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by jaxjags »

Rex Kramer wrote:Rest assured, your dilemma is perfectly rational. Other teens and even kids have had to face it. Some have decided to wait until they were old enough to try for the College Tournament or regular Jeopardy! As an aside, Kevin Marshall chose to try out for regular Jeopardy! instead of a College Tournament when he was in college for similar reasons -- only in his case, it wasn't not being invited to the ToC, since College Champs are, but not having the opportunity to play more than four games, which Kevin eventually did.

Others have just decided to go for it while they could. After all, there is no guarantee Jeopardy! will even be around when you are old enough to play regular J!. What if Alex quits next year and then ratings plummet? Maddie Suchard, who dominated her Kids' Week and undoubtedly would be a dominant player in regular J! when she grows up (or, frankly, probably even right now)*, chose to play Kids' Week rather than wait X-number of years for a shot at regular J! just for that reason.

So don't feel weird for asking yourself the question, and don't worry that there's a right or wrong answer -- just one you feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

Rex

*Jeez, her game was almost 7 years ago! She practically is grown up now!
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one. What is holding me back from...being held back is what you said with the uncertainty that is the future of Jeopardy. I think I should try and do as much as I can now, rather than be sad that Jeopardy gets canceled. However, the thought of "I could be a super champ" or "I could be the 2nd guy to win the ToC from college" continues to linger in my mind. I guess I should look at Jeopardy being a reason I go to a great college (and a great thing to put on my resume) maybe outside of Georgia (where I currently live), but I always have thought of Jeopardy as being something fun to be a part of rather than to pay for college.

Thanks for that.
legendneverdies wrote:THey actually did invite the Teen champs to the TofC from 1987-2000, and invited all the Teen champions to the Ultimate TofC in early 2005(even those from 2000-2005 who didn't get to play in a regular TofC).
Yeah, it is just kind of disappointing that they don't invite them. I know that there is always limited space for the ToC (which is why I would love if they just added more players...maybe), so that's why teens don't get to come back. I mean teens usually can hold their own in the ToC, maybe not always coming back for the semis, but people like Eric Newhouse and Matt Zielenski definitely give teens a good name.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by alietr »

I'll also add that in getting selected to be on the program -- whether for the Teen Tournament, College Tournament, or for the regular show -- you face daunting odds. Even if you're capable of passing any of the tests, you have to get selected for an audition (relatively low odds) and then if you get the audition, you still have to hope you get selected to be on the show (at best, a 10-20% chance). I would be inclined to think you'd want to take every opportunity to get on since you'll never know if you'll get through all of the selection process for the other possibilities. Just my 1/50 of one dollar.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by Creed Bratton »

alietr wrote:I'll also add that in getting selected to be on the program -- whether for the Teen Tournament, College Tournament, or for the regular show -- you face daunting odds. Even if you're capable of passing any of the tests, you have to get selected for an audition (relatively low odds) and then if you get the audition, you still have to hope you get selected to be on the show (at best, a 10-20% chance). I would be inclined to think you'd want to take every opportunity to get on since you'll never know if you'll get through all of the selection process for the other possibilities. Just my 1/50 of one dollar.
This. It seems to me that you're putting the cart way ahead of the horse.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by legendneverdies »

.
legendneverdies wrote:THey actually did invite the Teen champs to the TofC from 1987-2000, and invited all the Teen champions to the Ultimate TofC in early 2005(even those from 2000-2005 who didn't get to play in a regular TofC).
jaxjags wrote:Yeah, it is just kind of disappointing that they don't invite them. I know that there is always limited space for the ToC (which is why I would love if they just added more players...maybe), so that's why teens don't get to come back. I mean teens usually can hold their own in the ToC, maybe not always coming back for the semis, but people like Eric Newhouse and Matt Zielenski definitely give teens a good name.
Adding more players means changing the tournament format a bit, too.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by Paucle »

Also, if you get called for an audition and do poorly, at least you can learn from your mistakes for the next one.

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jaxjags
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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by jaxjags »

Creed Bratton wrote:
alietr wrote:I'll also add that in getting selected to be on the program -- whether for the Teen Tournament, College Tournament, or for the regular show -- you face daunting odds. Even if you're capable of passing any of the tests, you have to get selected for an audition (relatively low odds) and then if you get the audition, you still have to hope you get selected to be on the show (at best, a 10-20% chance). I would be inclined to think you'd want to take every opportunity to get on since you'll never know if you'll get through all of the selection process for the other possibilities. Just my 1/50 of one dollar.
This. It seems to me that you're putting the cart way ahead of the horse.
True, I do think now that I'm probably overvaluing myself. I was mostly speaking hypothetically, sorry if I came off as cocky or anything.

And alietr that is very true, I am pretty confident I can get at least 35 correct on the online test if they are anything like the teen tournament questions on the show, but of course, a lot of people will, too. I should probably take every chance I can, starting with doing the teen tournament for the next 2 years, then move on to college. Thanks, everyone

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by Austin Powers »

Jaxjags watch today's episode. Then ask the same question to me in the game thread, and we will talk about this issue in a spoilerized manner.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by TheGrandPiano »

As a fellow teen and test taker next week, I would advise you to go ahead with the test. It gives you experience as already noted, and if you were to win the tournament and earn $75,000, that would be fantastic. At that point, I don't think you would regret your decision! Also, to earn more in the College Tournament, you would have to win, and it is no easy task to earn more than $75,000 on the show (of course, if you happened to do that, it would be plausible to assume you would be a ToC contender). Nevertheless, I hope that you take the test and get on the show. God Bless you as you make the decision.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by emtwo »

YOU WANT JEOPARDY FOR COLLEGE APPS. YES YOU DO.

But really, econgator and the others are right. The more you try out, the better your chances are of getting on the show at all, and audition experience is invaluable. Only getting to play a max of four games does suck, but take what you can get, right? Alex is an old man... someday he's going to make good on his threats to retire. Beat him to it.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by red_chucks »

I recommend the Teen Tourney.

If you play as an adult and don't win, you get $1,000 or $2,000. From that, you pay your expenses. Also, you get horsed out after the show. At J!, everybody is very nice to the contestants, but at the end of the show two smart people lose and two more need to be brought in.

In the Teen Tourney, six kids get $5,000 and six get $10,000 as consolation prizes. Plus you get three roundtrip airfares to LA, four nights at an expensive hotel, three passes to Universal theme park, and enough money to cover car rental and decent food. Even better, you are J! royalty for two days--after the taping, for example, contestants and families go to the stage for as long as they care to hang around. Maggie adopts the kids for two days.

In a tourney, there is no returning champ in your first game. That is much easier than starting against some tiger of a returning champ, even if you are a tiger yourself. You can also qualify if you come in second or third in your first game. That is huge. You can have so-so buzzer skills the first day and still get the chance to improve. You can win the tourney with buzzer skills that would mean losing your first game as an adult.

If you think you wouldn't be happy being teen champ because you want to be a ToC winner, then don't play in the Teen Tourney. If you are willing to be less than a ToC champ and are looking for the most out of your J! experience, I say the odds favor the Teen Tourney. Best wishes whatever route you may go.

red_chucks

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by jaxjags »

Thanks for all this, I never knew that you get all that out of being in a tournament, haha.

But this also brings me to my next question about just general wagering strategy during a tourney...

If you're in 2nd place and you would have to wager a good chunk of your money to cover 3rd or be a dollar of 1st...is it a better idea to wager just a little to hold out for a WC spot in case you miss the question, or do a normal wager like you're in a normal game? Say I have like, 12,000, the leader has 17,000, and 3rd has 9,000. Is it better to wager, say, 3000 and try for a WC or go 6001 and hope to get it right?

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by jeff6286 »

jaxjags wrote:Thanks for all this, I never knew that you get all that out of being in a tournament, haha.

But this also brings me to my next question about just general wagering strategy during a tourney...

If you're in 2nd place and you would have to wager a good chunk of your money to cover 3rd or be a dollar of 1st...is it a better idea to wager just a little to hold out for a WC spot in case you miss the question, or do a normal wager like you're in a normal game? Say I have like, 12,000, the leader has 17,000, and 3rd has 9,000. Is it better to wager, say, 3000 and try for a WC or go 6001 and hope to get it right?
There is often not an easy answer for that question, since a player never knows exactly where the wildcard cutoff will fall. I would say though that finishing in 2nd place should never enter your mind in a tournament quarterfinal. You should be thinking either about winning, or having enough to get a wild card. Your position relative to the 3rd place player really shouldn't be any factor in your decision making. (Unless you have a much larger lead over 3rd, say $15,000 to $8,000. Then I would bet $1,001 to lock out that player, but if your scores are fairly close like you propose here, I wouldn't consider 3rd place a factor in my decision.)

In your spot, I would either bet $3,000 or nothing at all, perhaps depending on how you feel about the category. $15,000 is almost guaranteed to get a wild card, so betting more than $3,000 doesn't really gain you anything, and if you miss it, you could still have a chance with $9,000. You could go with $1,500 or $2,000, and that could steal you a wild card on a miss, leaving $10,500 or $10,000 behind, but to me it seems just as likely that you would end up just short of a wild card with $13,500 or $14,000, and I would hate to get FJ right and end up falling short of a WC because of not betting enough.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by legendneverdies »

jaxjags wrote:Thanks for all this, I never knew that you get all that out of being in a tournament, haha.

But this also brings me to my next question about just general wagering strategy during a tourney...

If you're in 2nd place and you would have to wager a good chunk of your money to cover 3rd or be a dollar of 1st...is it a better idea to wager just a little to hold out for a WC spot in case you miss the question, or do a normal wager like you're in a normal game? Say I have like, 12,000, the leader has 17,000, and 3rd has 9,000. Is it better to wager, say, 3000 and try for a WC or go 6001 and hope to get it right?
Use normal wagering strategy in the semi final games. The people on this board who study wagering strategy more closely will tell how best to wager on day one and day two of a final.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by StevenH »

alietr wrote:I'll also add that in getting selected to be on the program -- whether for the Teen Tournament, College Tournament, or for the regular show -- you face daunting odds.
I have to wonder if this is really true. I mean, I have been a member of these boards (going back to the old Sony board) since September 2004, and honestly, it seems that a good number of the people who have been regular boardies have gotten on the show. I guess that this view might be distorted by the fact that a lot of people joined the boards or came out of lurking after they appeared on the show, but the odds really don't seem so bad to me.

In regards to the odds of getting an audition, I have auditioned for the show twice and have been selected for an audition 3 times, and I am pretty sure that every time I passed the online test (2 of those times, since 1 of my auditions came before the days of the online tests), I was chosen for the audition. So again, getting an audition doesn't seem to be like such a long shot as long as you can pass the test, and even if you don't get picked for one you will only have to wait a year (or maybe even less) to take the test and start the process again. I don't mean to sound disrespectful to all the hopefuls who haven't been picked for the show--especially since I am one of them--but this is just my observation.

In regards to choosing whether to go for the teen or college tournament or wait for the regular show, I would say go for Teen or College. As others have mentioned, you never know how long the show will be on the air. I also think that your chances of winning the teen or college tournament are better than going on the regular show and winning enough games to qualify for the ToC. The only thing I would recommend is to skip Kids Week, since you more than likely will never be invited back for a special tournament if you go on Kids Week.
Last edited by StevenH on Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by Rex Kramer »

In a Tournament Quarterfinal: at some point, with respect to the wild card berths, if you are going to get anything, you had best bet everything. As an illustration, suppose you have $8000 and think you should bet $2000 to stay ahead of the player in third with $5000. Suppose further that you have a 30% chance of a wild card slot with $8000, a 50% chance with $10000, a 90% chance with $16000, and a 5% chance with $5000. You can see that, if you're going to get the $2000, you might as well bet the whole $8000, because the increased upside is far greater than the increased downside.

The problem is, no one is really sure what the cutoff is. A scientific paper written a decade or so ago suggested that if you have less than $16000, you should just bet it all. But that info may not be accurate now. Also, this doesn't take into account the possibility of winning outright.

Rex

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Re: I'm a teen signed up for the online test, but I have one thing holding me ba

Post by Mr. History Bowl »

So my experience is probably a little atypical, but when I was 16 and wreaking havoc in the world of high school quiz bowl, I faced this dilemma, decided best to wait until I was about, say, 23, since I'd be out of college and would need the $. Moreover, my strengths play better to the regular show (less pop culture, and especially less teen pop culture, which I didn't know then and sure don't know now). Upshot? I taped my first show the day after I turned 23 and a half. Can't say I regret my line of thinking.
So, if you're willing to put in the hours to prepare and if your game is better suited for regular J!, go for that. If you think your odds are better with the teen tournament (or college), go for that. In the meantime, whatever you do, play the National History Bee and Bowl. It's great practice for J! and the fastest growing academic competition in the world. 0 teams at Nationals two years ago, 98 teams at high school Nationals last year, 171 and counting this year, plus a college Nationals separate from that, and plus a middle school National History Bee being televised on the History Channel in early June. (shameless plugs, sorry)
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