Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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MasterCone
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MasterCone »

Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm You’re surprised? I believe if you conducted a poll over 90% of boardies wouldn’t change a thing when it comes to the signaling device. Your opinion is the extreme minority.

Timing is in no way luck based, it is a skill that can be practiced and learned. Why do you think so many successful contestants practiced with a mock up for countless hours before appearing on the show?

It’s simply one of many strategic concepts that most contestants never consider important. No different than DD hunting, wagering skills, world capitals, etc. And it shows when they are on stage.
100%. Amy smacked the crap out of me on the buzzer in the DJ round in my game. I’d like to think I smacked the crap out of her in the J round though. This was by no means chance, in my opinion. I did a tremendous amount of work and engineering on the buzzer component both at home and in the studio during both the rehearsal rounds and while watching the first game she played. Everyone else had the opportunity to do this as well.

With the day’s contestants currently getting to sit in the audience directly behind the contestant coordinator table if they pick the right seat while watching, I will say there is a LOT on info you can glean from watching the monitor there while the games are in progress regarding when the buzzers arm and when contestants are ringing in. You can see it all.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by tddeveryday »

Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm You’re surprised? I believe if you conducted a poll over 90% of boardies wouldn’t change a thing when it comes to the signaling device. Your opinion is the extreme minority.
I'm surprised because when contestants reference buzzer speed, it's usually to complain about it. "I got locked out because the current champ is too fast" and things like that.

Would buzzer speed approval poll at over 90%? Maybe so. You're Golf. You're a sports guy, so naturally you appreciate good reflexes. I don't like sports, so maybe that's why I hate the buzzer speed factor. This isn't to say that people who hate sports will also hate the buzzer, only that people who don't like sports are more likely to view the buzzer unfavorably.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by tddeveryday »

This discussion is very eye-opening to me and I genuinely appreciate it. If most of you like the buzzer the way it is, I'm happy to leave it that way too and figure out how to gain my own timing advantage.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:28 pm
Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm Why do you think so many successful contestants practiced with a mock up for countless hours before appearing on the show?
That sounds like selection bias to me. Do you know how many unsuccessful contestants did the same thing? I imagine it's not an inconsequential amount, but they don't get asked about their training regimens.
Throw in some confirmation bias while we're at it. It's easier to remember such training being described by some successful contestants than to remember the ones who don't describe such a regimen.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

I was 3/5 in Dennis Quaid. (Footloose, The Right Stuff, The Rookie)
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph »

Buzzer speed strikes me as not purely a test of reflexes but also the processing speed of the contestant's brains in ascertaining the correct response to the clue combined with the decision whether or not to ring in has a significant part. A top level contestant will make those determinations faster and thus have an edge in timing the buzzer.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

mahatma wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:58 pm We could always just hand all three players a sheet with the questions, have them write their answers, then grade them during commercials. That would make for a fun game and awesome tv.
Right. One of the reasons for the show's success is that quick recall is part of the game play. You need to make a split second decision on whether or not you know the correct response and then you need to then buzz in before the other two. Changing that dynamic changes the game fundamentally, and definitely for the worse in my opinion.
tddeveryday wrote:I'm surprised because when contestants reference buzzer speed, it's usually to complain about it. "I got locked out because the current champ is too fast" and things like that.
I don't think that necessarily means they'd like that aspect to change, though. I definitely got stomped on the buzzer for my second game and realize buzzer skill isn't the strongest part of my game, but I would never want it to be eliminated from J!
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ldfghjkl »

Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm You’re surprised? I believe if you conducted a poll over 90% of boardies wouldn’t change a thing when it comes to the signaling device. Your opinion is the extreme minority.
Has there been a poll or discussion in which this consensus was established? I mean, doesn't the game make it impossible for someone unfortunate enough to have poor hand-eye coordination or diminished motor skills to do well, even if they have the greatest/fastest trivia brain in the world?
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

ldfghjkl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:44 pm
Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm You’re surprised? I believe if you conducted a poll over 90% of boardies wouldn’t change a thing when it comes to the signaling device. Your opinion is the extreme minority.
Has there been a poll or discussion in which this consensus was established? I mean, doesn't the game make it impossible for someone unfortunate enough to have poor hand-eye coordination or diminished motor skills to do well, even if they have the greatest/fastest trivia brain in the world?
Well, they can just go on WWTBAM! :shock: (Who said that!?) :?

Less flippantly, Jeopardy! is still a TV game show first, not a quiz bowl.
Without buzzers, it may be 'more fair'...but it wouldn't really be J! either then, would it?
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

harrumph wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:46 pm Buzzer speed strikes me as not purely a test of reflexes but also the processing speed of the contestant's brains in ascertaining the correct response to the clue combined with the decision whether or not to ring in has a significant part.
That depends on the contestant's ring-in strategy. Didn't Holzhauer say he waited for the lights, without exception? Whereas Ken went for the zen-zone voice-cadence method?
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph »

Robert K S wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:06 pm
harrumph wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:46 pm Buzzer speed strikes me as not purely a test of reflexes but also the processing speed of the contestant's brains in ascertaining the correct response to the clue combined with the decision whether or not to ring in has a significant part.
That depends on the contestant's ring-in strategy. Didn't Holzhauer say he waited for the lights, without exception? Whereas Ken went for the zen-zone voice-cadence method?
What I'm pointing towards here is the time before the lights come on; for most clues, two operations will be performed: coming up with a response, and then gauging the confidence one has in the response. A contestant who is quicker on those two operations should be able to time the buzzer better over a slightly slower contestant, as the slightly slower contestant has slightly less time to shift to gauging the buzzer. A top level contestant such as Jennings or Holzauer, who seem to know the correct response almost instantaneously, ought to be able to hone in more precisely on the lights or whatever cue they use as a result.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

If "IDK" were right, would the added "LOL" render it wrong? I was baffled by this FJ. Eventually I went to bed on it, and I did think of something in my sleep. Just before awakening this morning, I dreamt that I had come up with "Easter Seals", because some details had changed in my dream; the "34" referred to days not minutes, and there was a date in the clue that allowed one to deduce that 34 days earlier would have been just about Easter time. Another change in the dream was that it had become a LL question, which was natural because though I don't always use a stopwatch when playing FJ from the archive, I consider my time to be up if I fall asleep. I'm pretty strict about that. It's been one of the disappointments of my life that I never have discovered anything significant in my dreams, and that streak of failure continues.

Looking at it afresh today, I decided the key was "whose roots trace to" (why not "founded in"?), and chose the apparently non-existent Plant-a-Tree foundation. Admittedly, planting just one tree every 34 minutes might cause their benefactors to wonder where their money was going. I did consider Save the Children and Make-a-Wish. I think my main stumbling block was that I only thought of one "fulfilling" one's own thing, rather than someone else's thing. I might make an issue of "Make-a-Wish" being a single adjective and not three words, but I've gone on too long already. Tomorrow is another day.

I knew there was Randy Quaid and Dennis Quaid, and I think one of them was in "Breaking Away". I thought of Midway, but thought the mid-70's might be too early. "Dancing at Lughnasa" was a bad guess for the top row. I did get Big Easy and Right Stuff.

I thought it was a "mini-ball" because it was painted vermilion.

I noticed "Atlantic City boardwalk" in the Eponyms category and expected Alexander Boardman, but apparently wooden promenades had been called "boardwalks" before Boardman's in Atlantic City (which is considered the first of the seaside-attraction sort).

What walk-on amassed the most walk-off hits? I'm asking for own information.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

tddeveryday wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:50 pm This discussion is very eye-opening to me and I genuinely appreciate it. If most of you like the buzzer the way it is, I'm happy to leave it that way too and figure out how to gain my own timing advantage.
(Just now getting on the board a day late):
I'm not a contestant wannabe, but as a viewer/fan I'm not fond of the importance of buzzer speed. Would you ever watch a show called "Slapjack" where 3 people just see who can buzz the fastest as cards are displayed on a monitor? Ideally, you want to know who was the fastest at processing the question, solving it, and was confident in their solution. I'm sure all contestants beat on the buzzer for top two row questions sight unseen, and maybe even rows 3 and 4.
I don't have a viable solution, but don't count me in the 90% who like it the way it is. It's particularly atrocious that ties are broken in a buzzer race because there are multiple fixes for that. At least this is rare.
FWIW, I also don't like penalty kicks, hockey shootouts, or even the 13th-game tiebreaker format in tennis :).

I got Make a Wish instantly, but I don't know why. Habitat is a good wrong answer. Feeding a child every 34 minutes is an unfortunately funny good guess to have something on the screen.

Thanks to Volante and (previous poster) for clarifying the Chuck E Cheese Rat answer for me. I suppose they would have taken it.

I'm ready for a new champ, but I'm in sync with Amy's wager amounts. I can call them within $1K at every DD and FJ. She's more watchable than James H was,
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mikebdoss »

ldfghjkl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:44 pm
Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm You’re surprised? I believe if you conducted a poll over 90% of boardies wouldn’t change a thing when it comes to the signaling device. Your opinion is the extreme minority.
Has there been a poll or discussion in which this consensus was established? I mean, doesn't the game make it impossible for someone unfortunate enough to have poor hand-eye coordination or diminished motor skills to do well, even if they have the greatest/fastest trivia brain in the world?
I was going to bring up this exact situation. I understand why the buzzer is such a big part of Jeopardy, but I hate that there are amazingly smart people out there who'd be great at quickly answering the questions, but can't because they have a physical condition that limits how their thumbs work.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

I agree that it is unfortunate that something unrelated to knowledge is such an important factor in the game. But that’s just the way it works and I don’t know a good way to get around it. I certainly wouldn’t support a system where everyone who rings in within two seconds is entered into a random draw.

Amy may be faster on the buzzer (and buzzer skill would certainly improve as you play more games) but she also knows stuff.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

harrumph wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:55 pm A contestant who is quicker on those two operations should be able to time the buzzer better
Ah, got it.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Lefty wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:45 pm Another change in the dream was that it had become a LL question, which was natural because though I don't always use a stopwatch when playing FJ from the archive, I consider my time to be up if I fall asleep. I'm pretty strict about that.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by SpiffJumper227 »

Volante wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:42 pm
Ironhorse wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:09 pm Chuck E. Cheese was originally a rat but was retconned into being a mouse
Well, originally a coyote but they got a rat costume, which became a mouse because focus groups.
Peachbox wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 pm Didn't pick up properly on the word "fulfills" and went with Habitat for Humanity.
I think the bigger clue is the org. in question is domestic; Habitat is international. But that '~30 minutes' still messed with me and I stuck with Habitat anyway
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/how- ... e-1.435574
Every 30 minutes, somewhere in the world, Habitat for Humanity (HFH) volunteers hand over the keys of a brand new home.
I was also taken in by the year. The date pointed me in the general vicinity of Jimmy Carter, who became a major ambassador of Habitat For Humanity, and a home (habitat) every 34 minutes seemed plausible.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf »

Golf wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm Why do you think so many successful contestants practiced with a mock up for countless hours before appearing on the show?
seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:28 pm That sounds like selection bias to me. Do you know how many unsuccessful contestants did the same thing? I imagine it's not an inconsequential amount, but they don't get asked about their training regimens.
Judging by typical game play from contestants, it's really easy to see how few actually properly prepare. Since practicing on the buzzer is part of proper preparation, it stands to reason very few actually do it.

I don't know how many unsuccessful contestants did so, and I really don't give a crap. What I do know is that practicing the buzzer before taping can only increase the odds of success. And that was the point of the statement. Which you are aware of.
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Re: Friday, December 3, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles »

So if somebody is visibly being beaten on the buzzer it means they didn’t practice on the buzzer.

:roll:

Definitely no glaring problems with that logic.
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