New old games in the J! Archive

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MarkBarrett
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

Bamaman wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:10 am
They would have had to have a tie-breaker clue to determine who won and got the TOC spot and the extra $200.

I agree the leader was foolish to bet more than $1. This bet gave second a chance to win with a small bet.

There is no link to Bart’s TOC appearance on his player page. When I click on his statistics link, it only gives me his stats from this tournament.
Bart's TOC page did not have his alias number to link his appearances together. Fixed now, thanks.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

I added 12/21/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6807

Player pics of Dave Tucker, Diane Lilly & Sharon Croissant:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Tough QF round with coulda stayed pat and made semis, but didn't. Coulda bet and made semis, but bet nothing.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by opusthepenguin »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:35 pm
I added 7/12/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6799

Ugh, I hate stuff like dealing with that double Bogart movie clue. :twisted:
Yet another Bible category. Seems almost obligatory for a Seniors tournament. Fran ran the category. She definitely knew her shittim.

Ran the Bogart category including getting my definite articles correct. I wouldn't have caused any trouble for a future archivist! :D

Is FJ missing a BY between WRITTEN and EUBIE? That's probably what kept me from getting it right.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by opusthepenguin »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:13 pm
I added 7/13/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6800

Not the finest moment in J! history and amazing all the clues were played.
Ooof. $4500 in lach trash plus a solve on FJ gets me a win from podium 4. The players had a combined coryat of $13,600. Mine was over $22,000. (I let the Chrome app keep track and then didn't copy down the number before I left the page.)

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:12 pm
...

Is FJ missing a BY between WRITTEN and EUBIE? That's probably what kept me from getting it right.
It was, though not anymore. Apologies.
**********
I added 12/22/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6808

Player pics of Mark Weissman, Phyllis Clark and Darryl Adams:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image

DOGS $400 - If I was on the portion of the staff that knows the clues ahead of time I would have taken all side bets on that clue going neg before (if at all) getting a correct response.

The FJ! clue gives me flashback to 2005 when I needed three tries to get in with the name for my only real buzzer frustration of the day.

What happened in QF1:

Ange: 7100+7100=14200
Parma: 8400+1600=10000 (WC1)
Nola: 5200+4800=10000 (WC2)

WC3 - Graham: 7300+2500=9800
WC4 - Darryl: 8700-300=8400

alternate - Diane: 8100+0=8100

couldawouldashoulda - Grace: 9300-2300=7000

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:53 am
I added 12/21/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6807

Player pics of Dave Tucker, Diane Lilly & Sharon Croissant:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Tough QF round with coulda stayed pat and made semis, but didn't. Coulda bet and made semis, but bet nothing.
Ooh, another hit for Sioux Falls in the Archive, even if it is as a wrong guess.

Is the first abbreviation in FJ correct? A google search indicates that it might be SNCB instead.
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:11 pm

What happened in QF1:

Ange: 7100+7100=14200
Parma: 8400+1600=10000 (WC1)
Nola: 5200+4800=10000 (WC2)

WC3 - Graham: 7300+2500=9800
WC4 - Darryl: 8700-300=8400

alternate - Diane: 8100+0=8100

couldawouldashoulda - Grace: 9300-2300=7000
The FJ Clue, per The Resource:

MUSICAL THEATRE: SONGS PERFORMED IN A 1960 MUSICAL ABOUT HER INCLUDED "BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE OF DENVER" & "I AIN'T DOWN YET"
Spoiler
WHO IS THE (UNSINKABLE) MOLLY BROWN?
A triple get for the Seniors in 1995, but I suspect a triple miss in 2020.
Last edited by MinnesotaMyron on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by kingskip »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:11 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:12 pm
...

Is FJ missing a BY between WRITTEN and EUBIE? That's probably what kept me from getting it right.
It was, though not anymore. Apologies.
**********
I added 12/22/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6808

Player pics of Mark Weissman, Phyllis Clark and Darryl Adams:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image

DOGS $400 - If I was on the portion of the staff that knows the clues ahead of time I would have taken all side bets on that clue going neg before (if at all) getting a correct response.

The FJ! clue gives me flashback to 2005 when I needed three tries to get in with the name for my only real buzzer frustration of the day.

What happened in QF1:

Ange: 7100+7100=14200
Parma: 8400+1600=10000 (WC1)
Nola: 5200+4800=10000 (WC2)

WC3 - Graham: 7300+2500=9800
WC4 - Darryl: 8700-300=8400

alternate - Diane: 8100+0=8100

couldawouldashoulda - Grace: 9300-2300=7000
Mark I sent you a PM. I have more games to add.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

Thank you, Myron. SNCB is correct and now fixed.

PM seen for some games not in the archive. Thank you for the heads up post as one of the board updates eliminated the emails that used to be sent to alert about a PM.

Edited to add: I've now downloaded the games to my computer, so you can delete them if you need Drive space.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

FWIW, Mark and team, I think I fixed that bug that was affecting special characters in the correction suggestion system and on the administrative page that renders a listing of all the players. Let me know if you find any other instances of it lurking around.

I spent many hours over the last several weeks trying to figure out what the problem was and how to solve it. Turns out, I had actually already solved it and fixed it four years ago in one place in the Archive backend (but not everywhere) and left myself a note in the code comments with the solution. Finding that solution comment was one of those moments when you simultaneously revere yourself as a genius and pity yourself as an idiot.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

Robert K S wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:55 am
FWIW, Mark and team, I think I fixed that bug that was affecting special characters in the correction suggestion system and on the administrative page that renders a listing of all the players. Let me know if you find any other instances of it lurking around.

I spent many hours over the last several weeks trying to figure out what the problem was and how to solve it. Turns out, I had actually already solved it and fixed it four years ago in one place in the Archive backend (but not everywhere) and left myself a note in the code comments with the solution. Finding that solution comment was one of those moments when you simultaneously revere yourself as a genius and pity yourself as an idiot.
Are you exclusively looking for backend issues with special characters? I know of a couple frontend ones but I don't want to speak out of turn.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

Oh, please speak up about all Archive bugs, of course. But maybe so as not to bore everyone here, e-mail or PM me through any of the usual channels.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by opusthepenguin »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:30 pm
I added 7/14/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6801
No errata.

Rough dilemma/trilemma on DJ18 COMPOSERS $800: "Armida", an opera by this Czech composer, premiered in Prague in March 1904, 5 weeks before his death
Spoiler
Dvořák. You've got three basic choices for "Czech composer"--Antonín Dvořák, Bedřich Smetana, and Leoš Janáček. They're all roughly contemporaneous so unless you know exact dates (Smetana 1824-1884, Dvořák 1841-1904, Janáček 1854-1928) the year in the clue won't help. They all died and were buried in their homeland, so Prague doesn't help unless you happen to know that Janáček died in Brno whereas both Dvořák and Smetana died in Prague. Basically, if you don't recognize the opera in this clue--and there's no reason you should. I certainly didn't--then this is a good time to clam.

A quick czech of the archive indicates that Janáček has never been a correct response to a clue and has only been mentioned in two clues. Outside an uber-TOC where they might be looking for something different but still gettable, rely on "Czech composer" being either Dvořák or Smetana with the odds roughly two to one in favor of Dvořák. If another contestant does you the favor of eliminating one, you can go with the other. In this case, however, Susan rang in to eliminate Janáček, who was never really in contention, and lost $800. Whether that helped Aaron to his correct response is anyone's guess. Personally, I'd have gone with Smetana if forced to guess. I remembered that Dvořák emigrated to the US (hence his final symphony no. 9 "From the New World") and did not realize he later returned home.
That clue kept me from running the COMPOSERS category even though I was able to get the $1000 clue correct without the benefit of an audio clip. They say "canon", we say...
Spoiler
Pachelbel!
A quick check suggests I may have a case for my alternate response on DJ22 LAW $600: Under former laws, it was a person who settled on public land to acquire its title
Spoiler
Steve's response of "squatter" was accepted. Were they prepared for my response of "homesteader"? Yea or nay, judges? If yea, would I have gotten credit through immediate acceptance or later reversal?
Aaron might have TMI-ed on DJ26 QUOTABLE WOMEN $200: The poet who wrote, "I love thee to the depth and breadth and height my soul can reach"
Spoiler
Forgetting the category, he went with Robert Browning rather than the correct Elizabeth Barrett Browning. Could he have gotten away with just "Browning"? I suspect that today (and maybe back then) they'd accept that on the grounds that the category removes any ambiguity. But as Aaron demonstrates, it's quite possible to mean the wrong one even so. That's why I'd draw the line in a slightly different place than I think today's judges would and require a BMS here. I'm not in the camp of those who want to eliminate the judgment calls and require a first name in all cases. But I can see their point given that it's impossible to frame a hard and fast rule--other than "always" or "never"--for when first names should be required.
FJ was easy enough though I've never read the novel in question.
Spoiler
Nor have I seen the whole movie, but I've definitely seen and read the last line along with various references and parodies. Even though the quoted bit from the novel doesn't show up in the movie, it's easy to see where the thought is headed when a character says "I wish I could care what you do or where you go, but I can't".
Interesting that Aaron bet so conservatively that he's relying on a wildcard spot rather than clinching a win with his correct response. Makes sense, though. He was guaranteeing himself $9000 (which is $18000 in current J!bucks) on a miss. That's a comfortable position from which to wait for a wildcard. If he'd made the shutout bet and missed, he'd have been left with $7200. That's a little dicier. Since he got it right, he's sitting on $10000, pretty much guaranteeing that wc. Plus, with this being quarterfinal #5, he only has a brief agonized wait before finding out that his gamble worked out. He made a good call. Not the only good call, but one of them. I'd share my own strategy here but what if I'm headed into a TOC some day and my opponents are looking me up online to get whatever edge they can in their hopeless quest to beat me?

Actually, I've changed my mind. I will share my strategy so my future opponents can realize how hopeless the situation is. In Aaron's situation I would bet everything in a "shock and awe" campaign of psychological warfare, thus demoralizing them with my huge final total when I got it right. Honest, future opponents. Count on it.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by opusthepenguin »

Robert K S wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:55 am
Oh, please speak up about all Archive bugs, of course. But maybe so as not to bore everyone here, e-mail or PM me through any of the usual channels.
I found a bug the other day that I neglected to document and now can't remember exactly what it was. Could you fix it please? :D

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

I added 12/27/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6809

Player pic of Parma Holt who played Dave Tucker and Jerry Platzman:
Spoiler
Image
To complete the 1995-B set - player pics of Ange Cardinali and Nola Wegman:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Parma bet big on THE BIBLE though not big enough to get the necessary lock.

What a silly FJ! clue for an important game to decide a finalist.

***********
Going through these games of December 1995 I was reminded of this constantly-played trailer moment that was unavoidable back then:
Spoiler
The casting seemed off at first glance, yet when I saw the movie it was impressive to see that Hopkins pulled it off successfully.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Volante »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:33 am
A quick check suggests I may have a case for my alternate response on DJ22 LAW $600: Under former laws, it was a person who settled on public land to acquire its title
Spoiler
Steve's response of "squatter" was accepted. Were they prepared for my response of "homesteader"? Yea or nay, judges? If yea, would I have gotten credit through immediate acceptance or later reversal?
Credit yourself immediately
Spoiler
'Former' was likely their attempt to pin it since all Homestead acts have expired, while squatters still have rights today in various ways (I'll leave it to someone more motivated to dig up details as well as public/private distinctions)
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Bamaman »

Should “black” be capitalized in DJ6? (Just a question, not a correction suggestion. I didn’t know what the policy was on that).

Maybe the 2A wasn’t front page news as much as it is now, but how is DJ11 a TS and why is it at the bottom to begin with?

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by econgator »

Bamaman wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:41 pm
Should “black” be capitalized in DJ6? (Just a question, not a correction suggestion. I didn’t know what the policy was on that).
In reference to race, yes, it should be.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

So, here's what a lot of the major editorial organizations are deciding as of 2019/2020, and some opinion regarding lack of consensus with regards to symmetry. What is beyond contention is that as a rule of widespread adoption this is relatively new and calls into question what the policy should be with regard to going back and editing old clues, which followed the old convention of not capitalizing "black".

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b- ... eguide.php
https://apnews.com/7e36c00c5af0436abc09e051261fff1f
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/05/insi ... black.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... te/613159/
https://apnews.com/a6176d23ae017222878090abc8b01735
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ck-is-win/
https://www.brookings.edu/research/broo ... izesblack/
https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editi ... -in-white/

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by econgator »

Robert K S wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:27 pm
what the policy should be with regard to going back and editing old clues, which followed the old convention of not capitalizing "black".
Is there a "simple" way of combing the database on the back-end and then eyeballing which need to be changed and which don't?

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

I added 12/28/95: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6810

Player pics of Phyllis Clark, Jerry Platzman and David Cuneo has been posted recently.

That's all I have of 1995-B Seniors although I hope to possibly turn up QF1 somewhere.

Tomorrow I will start on the kingskip 5.

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