Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

davey wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:51 pm
Volante wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:43 pm I (inadvertently) showed off by going 'Hays Code' which I'm counting and no one will convince me otherwise
"Production Code" would also work. I was taken aback that no one got that one.
Sometimes the correct response to a double stumper here on the couch will have us saying, "Oh, is that all you wanted?" For some reason it seemed so basic that we figured we needed to say more. I can see "pre-code" catching the contestants off guard in that way.

EDIT: Like others, I went with pre-Hays code which has to be acceptable given the wording of the clue. It's possible none of the contestants could remember the Hays part and thought it was necessary.
Last edited by opusthepenguin on Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Category 13 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:07 am
opusthepenguin wrote:Pretty sure Yungsheng getting FJ right had more to do with it. If he'd gotten it wrong he would've cost himself the game. There's no telling whether Andie's wager from second would've been smarter, only that it almost certainly wouldn't have been dumber. (All-in would be the only dumber bet, I think.)
Actually, Yungsheng's wager had some merit that at least he would have stayed ahead of Andie, if both were wrong.
Fair enough. When I wrote the above, I think I was confusedly remembering that it was Yungsheng who bet everything but a dollar. In fact, that was Andie. Which suggests that Andie wouldn't have known how to capitalize on being in second place if that ruling reversal hadn't occurred. Moot point either way since Yungsheng had the sole get.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

opusthepenguin wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:06 am
davey wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:51 pm
Volante wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:43 pm I (inadvertently) showed off by going 'Hays Code' which I'm counting and no one will convince me otherwise
"Production Code" would also work. I was taken aback that no one got that one.
Sometimes the correct response to a double stumper here on the couch will have us saying, "Oh, is that all you wanted?" For some reason it seemed so basic that we figured we needed to say more. I can see "pre-code" catching the contestants off guard in that way.
MB probably should have mentioned Hays or the Production Code. But "pre-Code" is a common expression in film writing.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

davey wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:07 am
Volante wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:15 am
twelvefootboy wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:58 pm I thought Andie's "pallative" answer was good enough imho, even without the improved enunciation. There is no candidate for confusion. I've heard it said pal-ya-tive and without the four syllables more often than the correct version.
MW has two pronunciations for palliative and both have 4 syls: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/palliative
I took the neg with the 3 syl version. It'll probably be officially correct in another 5-10 years, but not yet IMO.
The second shows 3 syllables-
pal-yə-[-tive]
The problem with pal-la-tive is no letter i accounted for, not the number of syllables...
If I'm interpreting it right (and the audio seems to back this up) the alternate is /ˈpal-yə- [ˌā-tiv]/
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Volante wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am
davey wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:07 am
Volante wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:15 am
twelvefootboy wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:58 pm I thought Andie's "pallative" answer was good enough imho, even without the improved enunciation. There is no candidate for confusion. I've heard it said pal-ya-tive and without the four syllables more often than the correct version.
MW has two pronunciations for palliative and both have 4 syls: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/palliative
I took the neg with the 3 syl version. It'll probably be officially correct in another 5-10 years, but not yet IMO.
The second shows 3 syllables-
pal-yə-[-tive]
The problem with pal-la-tive is no letter i accounted for, not the number of syllables...
If I'm interpreting it right (and the audio seems to back this up) the alternate is /ˈpal-yə- [ˌā-tiv]/
No. The schwa represents the sound of the a. There's no long a in that recording. (That would be an odd transition to make, from ə to ā...) People can easily draw out the word and make it 4 syllables, but I hear 3 in the recording.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

Palliative is either "pal-ē-ā-tive" or "pal-ya-tive," and Andie is she/her.

I think it's interesting that that Merriam-Webster page only varies the vowel pair in its pronunciation symbols, but the audio varies the t as well (it's said as an actual T for the three-syllable pronunciation and as a D—or flipped R—for the four-syllable one).
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Harley R »

This is not getting any better.
To be generous, I am not sure if Mayim's brain or her microphone has the built-in delay.

I enjoyed the try-out shows much more than the "winner's".
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ldfghjkl »

So just to make things clear: has nobody come up with a way a contestant could possibly know whether the correct response is Vermont or Delaware (other than godlike knowledge of how many House seats they had back in the 1800s)?
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

It probably won't come up again, but you can memorize this chart if you want:

https://historycms2.house.gov/Instituti ... _pdf_2021/

Looks like Delaware reached its peak with 2 representatives from 1810 to 1820 after which they were busted back down to 1.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Linear Gnome »

ldfghjkl wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:18 pm So just to make things clear: has nobody come up with a way a contestant could possibly know whether the correct response is Vermont or Delaware (other than godlike knowledge of how many House seats they had back in the 1800s)?
I posted my rationale.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Linear Gnome wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:10 pm
ldfghjkl wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:18 pm So just to make things clear: has nobody come up with a way a contestant could possibly know whether the correct response is Vermont or Delaware (other than godlike knowledge of how many House seats they had back in the 1800s)?
I posted my rationale.
Ditto
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob »

DBear wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:36 pm I'm sorry, but is far easier for me to visualize a scenario where Delaware could have six reps than Vermont :? . Unlike Vermont, Delaware actually has a large city in Wilmington. Agree, this is a garbage clue.
Now, yes. But Delaware didn't have a large city at any point in time where either state could have possibly had 6 representatives. Wilmington was basically non-existent before the civil war. Delaware has always been pretty sparsely populated - as has Vermont. But the reason I said Vermont is because Vermont *is* 4 times the size of Delaware - so it's not so hard to believe they had four times as many scattered people at some early point in time.

FWIW - outside of New Castle County, Delaware is basically empty even today, and Wilmington's not as big a city as people think.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

Yeah if for whatever reason you feel you MUST use this clue, give something actually useful:

At its peak, this state had 6 seats in the House of Representatives; since the 1930s, it has had just 1, as it has slipped to 49th in population.

Now knowing that Vermont is 49th today while Delaware is all the way up at 45th is not what I would call vital knowledge, but it's a hell of a lot more reasonable than knowing which was larger in the 1820s.

At some point while digging through various 19th century elections to find how many electoral votes Delaware had at its peak, I had the realization that, oh crap, Delaware was a slave state...they were not counting all of their people. Was THAT the reason Vermont was so much more populous for apportionment puroses? And was that logic plausibly what the writers were thinking someone might use to pick between the two? Further research would seem to say no to these questions, the numbers of slaves in Delaware that I could find were very low numbers (in comparison to the more southern states) and would not have made up much of the difference between VT and DE.

It is more likely, I imagine, that there are just some bad clues being written, and is it somehow possible not one person on the writing or production team at any point asked the question "What other eastern states have a single representative today and what reason would people have for knowing which we are looking for here?"
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CyrusChan »

econgator wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:19 pm
CyrusChan wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:48 pm
what was the significance of the 1930's? not any new state admitted to the nation or census??
The 1930 Census eliminated districts 2-5.

If I had known that before looking it up, I wouldn't have guessed Delaware. :)
Probably the most popular incorrect response.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

twelvefootboy wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:58 pm
econgator wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:19 pm
The 1930 Census eliminated districts 2-5.
I didn't think the clue implied that it all happened at once, but a 80% swing (from 5 reps to 1) is still inexplicable. Good sleuthing by the Tampa fan ;)
It was not, in fact, good sleuthing. Vermont was down to two seats after the 1880 census and then down to one after 1930.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... om_Vermont
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Mathew5000 »

jeff6286 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:46 amAt some point while digging through various 19th century elections to find how many electoral votes Delaware had at its peak, I had the realization that, oh crap, Delaware was a slave state...they were not counting all of their people. Was THAT the reason Vermont was so much more populous for apportionment puroses? And was that logic plausibly what the writers were thinking someone might use to pick between the two? Further research would seem to say no to these questions, the numbers of slaves in Delaware that I could find were very low numbers (in comparison to the more southern states) and would not have made up much of the difference between VT and DE.
Correction: enslaved people were counted for purposes of apportionment, but weighted with a mulltiplier of three-fifths. For example, the calculation based on the 1840 census shows Delaware with a free population of 75,480, enslaved population 2,605, hence an "Apportionment Population" of 77,043.

Surprisingly, that document lists a number of enslaved people in a few northern states, with those counts also tabulated into the Apportionment Population at a weight of 0.6. For example, New York is listed with 4 enslaved people, Connecticut with 17, and New Jersey with 674.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

LOL, just LOL at FDR living until 2018.

I got Vermont instantly. I knew that Vermont and Delaware were the only eastern states with only one representative each. I didn't know that Vermont once had six but I knew that Delaware never had more than two.

Delaware is the oldest Congressional district, since it has never been divided for purposes of congressional representation. When it had two representatives, they were both elected at large.

If someone didn't know all that, the word "peak" was a TOM.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

floridagator wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:41 pm LOL, just LOL at FDR living until 2018.
"A memorable 2018 photo showed this president's flag-draped casket, with his service dog Sully beside it"

The clue didn't say the president in (the correct) question lived until then, just that the picture was taken then. If anyone is suggested as having lived to see 2018 in that clue, it's the service dog, which I think is a little more LOL just LOL than FDR.
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

seaborgium wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:23 pm
floridagator wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:41 pm LOL, just LOL at FDR living until 2018.
"A memorable 2018 photo showed this president's flag-draped casket, with his service dog Sully beside it"

The clue didn't say the president in (the correct) question lived until then, just that the picture was taken then. If anyone is suggested as having lived to see 2018 in that clue, it's the service dog, which I think is a little more LOL just LOL than FDR.
When do you take a photo of a president's flag-draped casket if not shortly after said president's death?
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Re: Monday, July 4, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

opusthepenguin wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:50 pm
seaborgium wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:23 pm
floridagator wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:41 pm LOL, just LOL at FDR living until 2018.
"A memorable 2018 photo showed this president's flag-draped casket, with his service dog Sully beside it"

The clue didn't say the president in (the correct) question lived until then, just that the picture was taken then. If anyone is suggested as having lived to see 2018 in that clue, it's the service dog, which I think is a little more LOL just LOL than FDR.
When do you take a photo of a president's flag-draped casket if not shortly after said president's death?
Whenever you visit the Garfield Monument in Lake View Cemetery?
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President Garfield’s casket, draped with an American Flag, is the only Presidential casket on full display where you can actually see the casket. Mrs. Garfield’s casket is also located in the crypt.
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