Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Bob78164
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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:33 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:02 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:53 am
Damn. Went for negbait on Final!, going with the Martian Manhunter. --Bob
On what planet would Martian Manhunter be in the scope for FJ! round material? Generally the correct response will have an air of familiarity to Joe & Jane America. One other factor you would not know if only playing the FJ! clue is earlier in the game there was a Mars clue.
I think Supergirl is reasonably popular. And I thought of “seeking,” not “Sea King.” —Bob

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:32 am

mdude04 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:44 pm
What world do we live in where an 11-day champion winning $74,000 actually seems anticlimactic?

I'm kind of worried that James is ruining my expectations forever.
No worries there. Jeopardy will always find a way to draw you back in and be impressed by a champion who “merely” averages $22K per game for five or six days. Eventually, a great champ will come up again and you will begin to ponder if that champ would have a chance if he ever played James.

I am intrigued by something else: Will this forever impact strategy and will we have more players try to play this way? While the Forrest Bounce was well-known, not many players copied the style. Arthur Chu took that to another level but hardly anyone repeated that. And no matter how advantageous it is, hardly anyone has emulated Roger Craig’s strategy of knowing what types of categories DDs are located in and searching those categories.

But James’ total Is so insane that it makes you wonder if strategy has forever been changed.. you have to think that future contestants are going to attempt similar gameplay. Who knows?

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:46 am

Maybe it'll be such a letdown when winning totals revert to the mean that they'll double clue values again.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:20 am

seaborgium wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:46 am
Maybe it'll be such a letdown when winning totals revert to the mean that they'll double clue values again.
Or maybe they'll be so scared of another James that won't even think about it. Double James' money, and you're talking serious bucks, even for a TV show.

Count me as another who got totally derailed by "seeking" vs. "Sea King", though I certainly don't consider myself expert in the superhero field.

Lampy vs. James might get ugly out there.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:43 am

JosephLousy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:32 am
I'm also tired of James' mastery. He peaked after his fourth game, once he ripped the one-day record to shreds. Now I want other players to have their moments of victory, their own streaks.
Did you feel the same way during ken's streak, or for that matter Julia's?
Is there any good reason why Jeopardy hasn't forced the players to select from top to bottom instead of wherever they want? I've seen this suggested a few times on this board. If both Alex and the producers prefer it when the game is played this way, why don't they just make it compulsory? Maybe they can implement this rule starting in season 36, which may give new challengers more of a fighting chance against superhumans like James.
This is a bad idea, IMO. James's Coryat through 11 games is even higher than Ken's was at the same point, and since James dominates in control of the board he would still be landing on most of the DD's. He would still be crushing opponents; his scores just wouldn't be as eye-popping and ratings wouldn't be boosted to the same extent. Also, the effect of the rule would be to make the game comparatively boring; and at the very least, you would be denying a trailing player the chance to come back by hunting for DD's. And as we've seen time and again, most contestants will revert to playing top to bottom anyway because they're more comfortable with that approach.
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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mdude04 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:02 am

I may be crazy but I seem to remember there being a category or two over the years that did actually force the contestants to go from top to bottom. Like the way the clues were presented, you had to go through them in order. And Alex specifically noted that on the category reveal. Though for the life of me I can't think of an example.

Am I crazy or does anyone else remember this?

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:02 am

mdude04 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:02 am
I may be crazy but I seem to remember there being a category or two over the years that did actually force the contestants to go from top to bottom. Like the way the clues were presented, you had to go through them in order. And Alex specifically noted that on the category reveal. Though for the life of me I can't think of an example.

Am I crazy or does anyone else remember this?
They are very rare, but yes, there are categories where they are required to go top-down.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mdude04 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am

Do you have an example off the top of your head?

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am

mdude04 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am
Do you have an example off the top of your head?
TAKE IN ORDER: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=20

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am

mdude04 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am
Do you have an example off the top of your head?
No, and I am too lazy to search for one. :)

ETA: Thanks, Mark.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by billiej » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:05 am

Peachbox wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:43 pm
Has the old show Superfriends to thank for getting FJ. :lol:
That's about the extent of my superhero knowledge. I interpreted C. King as "seeking", but still got to Aquaman because I thought I remembered him having some sort of sonar.

Whatever...a get is a get. :lol:

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:05 am

JosephLousy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:32 am
I'm also tired of James' mastery.
For the record I wasn't implying that I'm "tired" of James. He's a fantastic player and fun to watch.
mdude04 wrote:I may be crazy but I seem to remember there being a category or two over the years that did actually force the contestants to go from top to bottom
"Force" is probably too strong a word. The categories like this are intended to be done top to bottom and Alex states this, but they still don't prevent contestants from starting somewhere other than the top row.
Last edited by This Is Kirk! on Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:09 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:05 am
Don't forget Lampy the man who has beaten James head to head.
Not on equal terms, though.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JayK33 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:13 am

Well I'd like James to go on as long as possible. With all the records he's already set and everything, I don't want to see his run cut short, anytime soon.

And the reason I'd like to see more super tournaments is so the new greats, like James, could take on the previous ones, like Ken/Brad, and see if someone like Brad could still retain the title of "best of the best". We've seen him win the UToC and then face off against the new greats since then, like Roger Craig. Brad still managed to win the BotD with that new level competition so I am more than happy to see how he'd fare against the newest greats, like James, and those he either worked with or competed against in the All-Star tournament, in a regular style tournament.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by squarekara » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:32 am

JosephLousy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:32 am
He peaked after his fourth game, once he ripped the one-day record to shreds.

Is there any good reason why Jeopardy hasn't forced the players to select from top to bottom instead of wherever they want?
I guess you mean your interest peaked, not James' performance. ;)

As for the compulsory top-to-bottom approach--the producers give players the freedom to play their own game, whatever that happens to be. They discourage the Bounce because they know that a lot of players get tripped up trying to pull it off.
But with the kind of ratings and water-cooler talk James is generating for them right now, they're not about to shut down those tactics. We're witnessing the Perfect Jeopardy Storm--broad knowledge base, effortless buzzer timing, facility with numbers and high stakes, seemingly unfazed by the studio situation, etc. Let it rage.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:34 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:59 pm
At this point it seems like we need either Austin Powers or LSV to step in to take James down. :D
Actually, it doesn't take a top-rate player to take a monster champion down. It takes a "slow" player, though that's a misleading word - someone who just can't get the hang of the buzzer. Remember that in Ken's defeat, there were only two people in FJ. The two other games I remember that were close - against Matt Ottinger and Jeff Suchard - also had only two people in FJ.*

There were several games where it was obvious that both of James's opponents were playing the game well, just not quite as fast as he was. But both being good, they got in each other's way. It hasn't mattered yet, because James has always profited from DDs and has gotten all FJs but one. The other necessary ingredient is his missing two DDs and FJ (as happened to Ken in his losing game). Or James not quite being in the zone (as happened to every superchampion at least once and several times to Ken). But as comfortable as he is now with the buzzer, no challenger will take him down unless it's essentially a two-person match.

(Yes, there were superchamps who lost in exciting 3-way fights, like David Madden. But David wasn't a buzzer monster.)

* This is not in any way meant to imply that Matt and Jeff weren't top-rate players; just that it wouldn't have helped them get close if the third contestant had had similarly good buzzer timing.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:04 pm

57 R (Missed $800, $1600, and $2000 in U. S. Senate Glossary.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
LT: Trex, Woof
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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 pm

gnash wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:34 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:59 pm
At this point it seems like we need either Austin Powers or LSV to step in to take James down. :D
Actually, it doesn't take a top-rate player to take a monster champion down. It takes a "slow" player, though that's a misleading word - someone who just can't get the hang of the buzzer. Remember that in Ken's defeat, there were only two people in FJ. The two other games I remember that were close - against Matt Ottinger and Jeff Suchard - also had only two people in FJ.*

There were several games where it was obvious that both of James's opponents were playing the game well, just not quite as fast as he was. But both being good, they got in each other's way. It hasn't mattered yet, because James has always profited from DDs and has gotten all FJs but one. The other necessary ingredient is his missing two DDs and FJ (as happened to Ken in his losing game). Or James not quite being in the zone (as happened to every superchampion at least once and several times to Ken). But as comfortable as he is now with the buzzer, no challenger will take him down unless it's essentially a two-person match.

(Yes, there were superchamps who lost in exciting 3-way fights, like David Madden. But David wasn't a buzzer monster.)

* This is not in any way meant to imply that Matt and Jeff weren't top-rate players; just that it wouldn't have helped them get close if the third contestant had had similarly good buzzer timing.
nancy zerg can attest to that...the sybille bammer (barely a .500 record for her career but 1 of 2 people to have a winning record against one of the greatest tennis players of all time (serena williams) of jeopardy

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Mathew5000 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:42 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am
mdude04 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 am
Do you have an example off the top of your head?
TAKE IN ORDER: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=20
A more recent example: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5985
Each of the correct responses "leads in" to the correct response of the clue beneath it. But as Mark pointed out at the time, nobody noticed because (among other reasons) the players took the clues of that category in order but nonconsecutively.

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Re: Thursday, April 18, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Le Master » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:26 pm

CasketRomance wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 pm

nancy zerg can attest to that...the sybille bammer (barely a .500 record for her career but 1 of 2 people to have a winning record against one of the greatest tennis players of all time (serena williams) of jeopardy
Ken = Federer
Brad = Nadal

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