GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
billiej
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 708
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:56 pm
Location: Maine

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by billiej »

Bigdogstalfos wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:45 am
On James’s DD miss, I spent most of the time thinking the colors referred to the state of Florida and not Florida State, the school. Had to pivot really quickly to get to birthstones that are kind of red and then garnet.
Rather embarrassingly, I came up with ruby, despite garnet being MY FREAKIN' BIRTHSTONE!! :oops:

Austin Powers
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1644
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

The daily double was phrased a little oddly. I have attended actual football games at the actual Doak Campbell Stadium and I had to read the question twice before I was able to pick up on what they wanted.

User avatar
twelvefootboy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 pm
Location: Tornado Alley / Southwest Missouri

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

MitchO wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:53 am
BrigadierSolo13 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:03 am
I suppose it was obvious to me, a former Florida State student, and current resident of Tallahassee, but I was shocked when James, the sports-bettor he is, did not know our colors are Garnet and Gold. We may be looking at a different champion today if he did...
Yeah, I'm what you would call "barely knowledgeable" about college sports in general, but the pairing of Garnet & Gold was somewhere in the back of my brain and managed to come forth.

...
I loved that clue with the three way TOM (sports, abrasives, birthstone) but thought it was too easy. Even more I enjoyed the facial contortions as James tried to solve it but I just thought he was mugging for dramatic effect. Great clue again by the writers.

Garnet has always been one of my favorite overachievers for making the semi-precious gemstone list when it's usually just a dirty little mineral. It also is responsible for the coolest name for lasers, the YAG laser (Yttrium Aluminum Garnet - usually doped with Neodymium).
Coincidentally, I just learned last week that humans have been enslaving ants in the garnet mines. I'm sure the ants can't wait for the robot uprising to free them ;). It will be appropriate if they bust our asses with some YAG based phasers set to liquify :).
Spoiler
https://geology.com/gemstones/anthill-garnet/
(excerpt - this is a great page to look at)

They are called "ant hill garnets" because they are found on and around the margins of ant hills. The ants encounter the garnets while excavating their underground passages. The ants haul the stones to the surface and discard them. The rain washes the garnets clean and moves them down the flank of the ant hill, where they can accumulate in large numbers. This concentrates the little gems and makes them easy for people to collect. Their brilliant luster and red color contrasts strongly with the surrounding soil.
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4951
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

James Madison as part of a FJ answer on day two and then the Democratic-Republicans on day three? Come on, writers, lets show a little more range!

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4951
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

BrigadierSolo13 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:03 am
I suppose it was obvious to me, a former Florida State student, and current resident of Tallahassee, but I was shocked when James, the sports-bettor he is, did not know our colors are Garnet and Gold. We may be looking at a different champion today if he did...
I messed that one up, too. I guess I was thinking they were trying to tell us it was a color we might associate with the State of Florida, not necessarily Florida State University, so said citrine.

User avatar
billiej
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 708
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:56 pm
Location: Maine

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by billiej »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:21 am
James Madison as part of a FJ answer on day two and then the Democratic-Republicans on day three? Come on, writers, lets show a little more range!
At the very least, it's hammered home that I really need to brush up on my political history. I matched Ken on the incorrect response to the former FJ. As for the latter, I immediately thought of Federalist :oops: , then did a 50-50 on....Whig and Democratic-Republican. :lol:

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4951
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

billiej wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:27 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:21 am
James Madison as part of a FJ answer on day two and then the Democratic-Republicans on day three? Come on, writers, lets show a little more range!
At the very least, it's hammered home that I really need to brush up on my political history. I matched Ken on the incorrect response to the former FJ. As for the latter, I immediately thought of Federalist :oops: , then did a 50-50 on....Whig and Democratic-Republican. :lol:
I biffed that one, too. Federalist is what I thought of first and could only think of James Adams as a Fed President, but I thought of the Democratic-Republicans too late to change.

User avatar
SenseiCAY
Jeopardy Participant
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:56 pm
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Contact:

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by SenseiCAY »

Got Garnet, and a couple of other triple stumpers, but...DAMN...Ken dropping the hammer in FJ in the first game...I just about fell out of my chair on that bet. Not surprised he was confident in the category, but if that wasn't a statement...

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:29 am
billiej wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:27 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:21 am
James Madison as part of a FJ answer on day two and then the Democratic-Republicans on day three? Come on, writers, lets show a little more range!
At the very least, it's hammered home that I really need to brush up on my political history. I matched Ken on the incorrect response to the former FJ. As for the latter, I immediately thought of Federalist :oops: , then did a 50-50 on....Whig and Democratic-Republican. :lol:
I biffed that one, too. Federalist is what I thought of first and could only think of James Adams as a Fed President, but I thought of the Democratic-Republicans too late to change.
I missed both FJs by not thinking beyond the first response that came to me. Del Toro for Lee, and Federalist for Democratic-Republican. :(

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash »

JayK33 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:25 pm
Looks like Brad will finally "lose to a human being" by the time this tournament is done. How many matches are there in total?
I don't think there's any way to say he hasn't lost to a human being... three times.

This is not like "losing" a leg of a 2-day or 3-day total-point match, especially when it's not the first leg. Each of these matches counts indelibly. Yes, he can still win the tournament (though it's only 2/27 chance even assuming they are evenly matched, which seems increasingly unlikely), but he has lost the first three matches.

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash »

I think the most notable takeaway from the third match is that Ken has adopted James's (objectively correct) betting strategy with full success, while James has adopted Ken's risky buzzing with far less success. Now, I'm on record saying that James may have buzzed too conservatively in his regular run (too many games with 0 incorrect suggest he probably didn't buzz in on some clues he knew), but Ken's "what the hell, I'll buzz in and figure it out" approach has been kind of the opposite extreme. It may not be bad for Ken with his specific recall pattern, but is doubtful as a general recommendation. I have a feeling that James did not systematically prepare to modify his trigger level, but only decided to be more aggressive when he saw that Ken was outbuzzing him (AND did not leave money on the table). But then he hasn't gauged it to his optimal comfort as he's done with other aspects of the game.

In other words, if Ken wins the GOAT title, it will be because Ken outjamesed James and James couldn't outken Ken.

User avatar
floridagator
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:39 am

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

alietr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:28 am
Given the ratings, ABC will be very disappointed if Ken wraps it up Tuesday night.
My PVR is showing four games on the schedule for next week. Should that be taken to mean that this tournament is going to the maximum seven games? Or is that merely a contingency in case it does, like scheduling the World Series?
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash »

Updated probabilities: under the "totally random outcome, evenly matched players" assumption, Ken is now a strong favorite to win the tournament (19/27, or about 70%), James is at 6/27 (22%), and Brad at 2/27 (a little over 7%).

How credible is that assumption? I think for Ken and James, it seems very plausible that they are as evenly matched as can be. By far the most important consideration now is the psychological effect their current position will have on them, and nobody can predict that. Brad, on the other hand, seems off, both on buzzer speed and on concentration/recall. Now, he's had bad streaks before, and came back quickly and strongly, but those past bad streaks lasted at most one round. Now it's 3 double matches - 12 rounds, of which he was competitive with the other two guys in maybe 3, and superior in none. He just can't seem to get in the zone and stay there.

jeopardyfan939
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:25 pm

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeopardyfan939 »

gnash wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:12 am
Updated probabilities: under the "totally random outcome, evenly matched players" assumption, Ken is now a strong favorite to win the tournament (19/27, or about 70%), James is at 6/27 (22%), and Brad at 2/27 (a little over 7%).

How credible is that assumption? I think for Ken and James, it seems very plausible that they are as evenly matched as can be. By far the most important consideration now is the psychological effect their current position will have on them, and nobody can predict that. Brad, on the other hand, seems off, both on buzzer speed and on concentration/recall. Now, he's had bad streaks before, and came back quickly and strongly, but those past bad streaks lasted at most one round. Now it's 3 double matches - 12 rounds, of which he was competitive with the other two guys in maybe 3, and superior in none. He just can't seem to get in the zone and stay there.
I hope James can rebound next Tuesday and even the series up at 2-2-0. But hey, if Ken wins GOAT, he reclaims the game show record from Brad. And Ken also has a good sense of humor (especially when he did the famous all-in push when going all-in on a daily double).
Last edited by jeopardyfan939 on Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1678
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash »

jeopardyfan939 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:26 am
gnash wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:12 am
Updated probabilities: under the "totally random outcome, evenly matched players" assumption, Ken is now a strong favorite to win the tournament (19/27, or about 70%), James is at 6/27 (22%), and Brad at 2/27 (a little over 7%).

How credible is that assumption? I think for Ken and James, it seems very plausible that they are as evenly matched as can be. By far the most important consideration now is the psychological effect their current position will have on them, and nobody can predict that. Brad, on the other hand, seems off, both on buzzer speed and on concentration/recall. Now, he's had bad streaks before, and came back quickly and strongly, but those past bad streaks lasted at most one round. Now it's 3 double matches - 12 rounds, of which he was competitive with the other two guys in maybe 3, and superior in none. He just can't seem to get in the zone and stay there.
I hope James can rebound next Tuesday and even the series up at 2-2-0. But hey, if Ken wins GOAT, he reclaims the game show record from Brad. And Ken also has a good sense of humor (especially when he did the famous all-in push when going all-in on a daily double).
I'm rooting for Ken, but I'd hate to see Brad completely shut out. Ken winning 3-1-1 would be the most satisfactory outcome for me. But I'll be happy as long as they keep the amazing level of play until the end.

Bigdogstalfos
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bigdogstalfos »

floridagator wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:05 am
alietr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:28 am
Given the ratings, ABC will be very disappointed if Ken wraps it up Tuesday night.
My PVR is showing four games on the schedule for next week. Should that be taken to mean that this tournament is going to the maximum seven games? Or is that merely a contingency in case it does, like scheduling the World Series?
I assume it’s just filling in spots like a playoff series so there aren’t blocks of “To Be Announced.”

User avatar
cinemaniax7
Humble Pi
Posts: 1169
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:04 pm
Location: Old Hickory, TN

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cinemaniax7 »

Bigdogstalfos wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:45 am
On James’s DD miss, I spent most of the time thinking the colors referred to the state of Florida and not Florida State, the school. Had to pivot really quickly to get to birthstones that are kind of red and then garnet.
My thinking exactly! Sometimes the all-caps J! font creates unintended complications for those of us playing the clues.
gnash wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:56 am
I think the most notable takeaway from the third match is that Ken has adopted James's (objectively correct) betting strategy with full success, while James has adopted Ken's risky buzzing with far less success. Now, I'm on record saying that James may have buzzed too conservatively in his regular run (too many games with 0 incorrect suggest he probably didn't buzz in on some clues he knew), but Ken's "what the hell, I'll buzz in and figure it out" approach has been kind of the opposite extreme. It may not be bad for Ken with his specific recall pattern, but is doubtful as a general recommendation. I have a feeling that James did not systematically prepare to modify his trigger level, but only decided to be more aggressive when he saw that Ken was outbuzzing him (AND did not leave money on the table). But then he hasn't gauged it to his optimal comfort as he's done with other aspects of the game.

In other words, if Ken wins the GOAT title, it will be because Ken outjamesed James and James couldn't outken Ken.
This is a nice analysis, Gnash.

User avatar
Roadgeek Adam
TOC Geek
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:20 pm
Location: East Amherst, New York
Contact:

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Roadgeek Adam »

Ratings are in, 15.4 million watched Day 3's match. Second straight jump, now more ratings than NBC/FOX/CBS combined in timeslot.
Adam Seth Moss
DoorDasher (since May 7, 2020)
M.A. History, Western Illinois Univ, 2017
B.A. History (minors in PoliSci & PubAdm), Montclair State Univ, 2015
A.A. History & Education, Middlesex County Coll., 2013

User avatar
Newhausen
Valued Contributor
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 8:02 pm

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Newhausen »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:29 am
billiej wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:27 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:21 am
James Madison as part of a FJ answer on day two and then the Democratic-Republicans on day three? Come on, writers, lets show a little more range!
At the very least, it's hammered home that I really need to brush up on my political history. I matched Ken on the incorrect response to the former FJ. As for the latter, I immediately thought of Federalist :oops: , then did a 50-50 on....Whig and Democratic-Republican. :lol:
I biffed that one, too. Federalist is what I thought of first and could only think of James Adams as a Fed President, but I thought of the Democratic-Republicans too late to change.
Same here despite my love for Hamilton. As soon as the answer was revealed, though, I couldn't help but say to myself "mother-------- Democratic-Republicans!"

User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: GOAT Tournament Day 3 (1/9/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

alietr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:28 am
Nope, he just drifted away I suppose. Hasn't been on in nearly two years. I can't say I'm unhappy about that.
I mean... should we check obits?

Post Reply