Thursday, October 14, 2004 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

[This Is Kirk!]

Also, in the icing video - they couldn't have had Tie ice the puck? He gets it before the blue line, so it's a legal pass.

Offside (though Ken said "offsides"), not icing.

[AntmanB]

does Jeopardy seem...…..Harder than it used to be?

[talkingaway]

Also, in the icing video - they couldn't have had Tie ice the puck? He gets it before the blue line, so it's a legal pass.

Offside (though Ken said "offsides"), not icing.

Sorry, brain malfunction. Yeah, I know the difference - and I even know it's not "offsideS". I was more distracted that Tie was onside when he accepted Alex's pass.

[talkingaway]

How'd people fare on the hockey clues? I went 5/5, but I thought the hardest one by far was the Islanders clue. Granted, Ken accidentally turned it into "name the OTHER team in New York", which should be a rebound for the brave. I'll admit, I'd NHO Bryan Trottier, but "dynasty in the early 80s" nails it to NYI. Right after that dynasty is that of Gretzky's Oilers, which would be an acceptable guess if they hadn't named someone who is not Gretzky.

I find it interesting that you know the difference between the NYI's dynasty of the early 80's vs. the Oiler's dynasty of the late 80's, yet haven't heard of a huge star of that era like Trottier.

Regardless, it was all Hockey 101, so most contestants will not fare well. Boardies tend to fare some better than contestants in sports categories.

Cup wins are bigger than players, I guess. *shrug* I'll admit to being more of a Bruins fan than a hockey-in-general fan. I was barely toilet trained when those wins started, so I guess that could be my excuse for not knowing the stars? I'm also terrible with names. A Billie Jean King picture popped up last week, and all I could come up with is "The tennis player who inspired Elton John to write Philadelphia Freedom".

Ken's strategy on that clue was pretty bad, though. He should have at least guessed that there were two New York NHL teams, and asked "What are the Rangers". As it was, the exchange made the rebound easy enough for anyone who knew the name of all 30 (at the time) NHL teams - it became "Name the OTHER hockey team from New York".

[Volante]

Also, in the icing video - they couldn't have had Tie ice the puck? He gets it before the blue line, so it's a legal pass.

Offside (though Ken said "offsides"), not icing.

Sorry, brain malfunction. Yeah, I know the difference - and I even know it's not "offsideS". I was more distracted that Tie was onside when he accepted Alex's pass.

Wait, we -want- Alex to muff the pass? No no no no no.

[This Is Kirk!]

Also, in the icing video - they couldn't have had Tie ice the puck? He gets it before the blue line, so it's a legal pass.

Offside (though Ken said "offsides"), not icing.

Sorry, brain malfunction. Yeah, I know the difference - and I even know it's not "offsideS". I was more distracted that Tie was onside when he accepted Alex's pass.

Yeah, that is bad.

[Category 13]

Appreciated the re-airing of this game, since I missed all of Ken's original run due to living in a black hole for TV reception back then.

LT: Knickers, NY Islanders, Stickhandling, Don Meredith

[trainman]

I was more distracted that Tie was onside when he accepted Alex's pass.

Am I missing something? The clue was "If Tie Domi crosses the blue line before I get the puck to him, we'll be guilty of this infraction." They weren't supposed to be demonstrating offside, they were just supposed to be demonstrating a pass near the blue line.

[opusthepenguin]

I had the outcome spoiled for me, but this was still fun to watch. I wonder if K.C. remembers what she was thinking on DD3. She decided to lose right then and there by betting too little to get past half Ken's score even if she picks up the $3600 left on the board. Alex even says, "You know what you have to do." And I think she does. She says, "Um, I'm only gonna do $2,000". She seems to know that's the wrong move and she still can't bring herself to make the right one. She doesn't even bet enough to overtake Graham for second place. And then, like so many before her, she finally develops the guts to go all in on FJ, the very time when being cautious could have earned her an extra $1000. This is the deer-in-the-headlights effect at full power.

She appeared on the old Sony board afterward with a post titled something like "feeling the need to defend myself" and explained that she was very unconfident about the category, guessed Victoria because it was the only African lake she'd heard of, and was amazed when it was right. Another then-recent unsuccessful contestant joined the thread to sympathize and ridicule the board's obsession with "betting strategy" (her quotes), adding that she had her memories to warm herself with at night.

That's a pretty hardcore mental block if accurate. Most players at least understand what a runaway is and when they've helped their opponent create or maintain one. Even casual fans can recognize the situation. Dismissing that as "betting strategy" is bizarre. It's like if the bases are loaded and the other team only needs one run to win and the pitcher decides on an intentional walk. After, when asked to explain his decision, he says that the batter was a really good hitter and his arm was getting tired and he's sick of all these people with their Sabermetrics trying to second-guess him.

[Bamaman]

Facing Ken probably doesn’t help calm the nerves. Still, with two clues left it is simple to do the math. Even Alex (who was no wagering guru) knew what to do.

[mas3cf]

does Jeopardy seem...…..Harder than it used to be?

In general, I find the episodes from that era harder than the current ones. A lot more clues requiring guesswork, plus more things I've never heard of. But YMMV

[Euphonium]

The best part of Ken's run was how he wrote his name

Not going to retell my favorite Richard Strauss story

See, if I had been Thetis, I would have just flipped him around and dipped him again just to be safe

Is there anyone else who was on long enough for their episodes to air while they were still taping new ones?

She gave us a mirror, she gave us a map

Poor KC She knew Gina Lollabrigida but couldn't get it out correctly.

With the Bloomington area's rather well-known karst topography, KC would be very familiar with sinkholes (though she'd also be familiar with quarries, since it's also a major limestone-producing region--the two facts are closely related, of course).

Coryat: $40,800

J: 26R3P1W. Got DD. 5/5 on Ladies, Nicknames, and Words. 4/5 on Presidents and Hockey.

DJ: 24R6P. 2/2 on DDs. 5/5 on Math, Lake City, and Hole Truth.

FJ: Missed. I thought Billy Mitchell, thinking of that M*A*S*H episode where Frank rants about him. Wrong timeframe,though. I realized it was Lindbergh, with his noted affinity for "America First"-style fascism, after Alex's comment, though.

LT: Martin van Buren, knickers, Islanders (on the rebound), Don Meredith, buttercup, cell door

[Euphonium]

I'll admit, I'd NHO Bryan Trottier, but "dynasty in the early 80s" nails it to NYI.

See, I was thinking they specifically chose someone with a French name to give a TOM for either the Canadiens or Nordiques, but I didn't feel like making the coin flip. So I was going to pass, and if Ken's initial response had been "New York Rangers" in full I wouldn't have gotten it. But he initially said "New York," which got a BMS, so I was able to get the rebound after he missed.

[merica]

I was between Lindbergh and Howard Hughes and went the wrong way, thinking it could have marked the latter's retreat from public life.

There seemed to be an edit after Ken's response of Tina Yothers. Anyone know if that's how it aired in 2004?

I noticed that as well. I don't know how it aired in 2004, but I'm thinking there was a question of pronunciation of the last name: "Yuthers" vs. "YO-thers". Just a guess though.

[Bamaman]

does Jeopardy seem...…..Harder than it used to be?

In general, I find the episodes from that era harder than the current ones. A lot more clues requiring guesswork, plus more things I've never heard of. But YMMV

Some old games are harder because there are “current event” clues that are much easier when it first aired. For example, if a clue basically asked you to name our current Secretary of State, you could do it. But could you pull Mike Pompeo in 2040?

[talkingaway]

I'll admit, I'd NHO Bryan Trottier, but "dynasty in the early 80s" nails it to NYI.

See, I was thinking they specifically chose someone with a French name to give a TOM for either the Canadiens or Nordiques, but I didn't feel like making the coin flip. So I was going to pass, and if Ken's initial response had been "New York Rangers" in full I wouldn't have gotten it. But he initially said "New York," which got a BMS, so I was able to get the rebound after he missed.

One thing that's kind of interesting - you can see the frustration on Ken's face when he got it wrong. At least from what I can surmise, he instantly calculated that he'd made a huge mistake, gifting a free $1600 spread to anyone who'd picked up on the TOM with the way he answered. Giving a wrong answer isn't usually that bad, as it eliminates one response out of a possible field of typically on the order of dozens - but in this case, the BMS gave the answer. That's one reason to always say team names and not locales, unless category restricted.

Although the Panthers are both Carolina (NFL) and Florida (NHL), so if you don't specify the league, they could get you. There are multiple instances of news stations getting this wrong - saying "The Florida Panthers did such-and-such" and showing the logo of the football team.

Facing Ken probably doesn’t help calm the nerves. Still, with two clues left it is simple to do the math. Even Alex (who was no wagering guru) knew what to do.

Speaking as a "math person" whose math ability apparently must have skipped generations, I can assure you that people who don't do math/strategy/games can be highly intelligent, functioning people...but they will NOT do math. Like the time plane tickets were going to cost $700 each for my mom, dad, and me, and she said, "That's almost $3,000!" (This was well before baggage charges, and she wasn't factoring taxes and the like.) One thing to consider - I as far as I know, there's nowhere at all in the J! audition process that tests wagering. And if you don't test for it, you won't know anything about how people handle those kind of situations. Of course, they also don't test FJ! clues to auditioners, and the contestants tend to do well on those - probably because they're at least skill-adjacent to regular clues.

I was more distracted that Tie was onside when he accepted Alex's pass.

Am I missing something? The clue was "If Tie Domi crosses the blue line before I get the puck to him, we'll be guilty of this infraction." They weren't supposed to be demonstrating offside, they were just supposed to be demonstrating a pass near the blue line.
[/quote]

I wasn't saying that the clue was wrong. The "If" part of the clue made it perfectly acceptable. I just found it a bit of an odd choice to show a good pass and not an offside one.

Yes, that means I would have had Alex muff the pass...but because Tie jumped the gun!

[This Is Kirk!]

I was more distracted that Tie was onside when he accepted Alex's pass.

Am I missing something? The clue was "If Tie Domi crosses the blue line before I get the puck to him, we'll be guilty of this infraction." They weren't supposed to be demonstrating offside, they were just supposed to be demonstrating a pass near the blue line.

I think talkingaway is just saying that since the clue is asking for "offside" it would make sense if they actually demonstrated being offside.

edit: just saw his reply. Looks like we're on the same page.

[seaborgium]

Not rebounding on a hockey team after it's confirmed to be in New York and one is eliminated is like guessing Italian islands when FJ asks for who controls an islet with a Hellenic name. (At least the challenger who hit the last DD in that game did the right thing with it.)

[jeff6286]

Not rebounding on a hockey team after it's confirmed to be in New York and one is eliminated is like guessing Italian islands when FJ asks for who controls an islet with a Hellenic name. (At least the challenger who hit the last DD in that game did the right thing with it.)

So that was Ken's 5th game and this was his 57th game, and he seems to be playing basically the same, taking top row clues and mostly playing categories in order, even late in DJ when the ONLY way he can lose is if a challenger finds the last remaining DD. For those watching closely at the time, did he ever vary from this strategy or was it the same through game #75?

[seaborgium]

Not rebounding on a hockey team after it's confirmed to be in New York and one is eliminated is like guessing Italian islands when FJ asks for who controls an islet with a Hellenic name. (At least the challenger who hit the last DD in that game did the right thing with it.)

So that was Ken's 5th game and this was his 57th game, and he seems to be playing basically the same, taking top row clues and mostly playing categories in order, even late in DJ when the ONLY way he can lose is if a challenger finds the last remaining DD. For those watching closely at the time, did he ever vary from this strategy or was it the same through game #75?

I remember seeing a YouTube upload one of his challengers made of their episode, where the challenger started hunting and Ken followed suit. I don't remember who it was or how many episodes Ken had won, but I think it was still in season 20.

Edit: I found it. They had cleared out the four leftmost categories in DJ without uncovering a DD, Tim Crockett had control, and went to the center of each remaining column. Then Ken got back in and alternated columns the rest of the way down (hitting both DDs, missing the second, which was one Tim knew according to his video).