Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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MarkBarrett
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

Robert K S wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:32 am
MarkBarrett wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:41 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:22 pm
floridagator wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:20 pm I knew standard deviation was wrong but I also knew that it was what the question was going for.
Why would "standard deviation" be what a clue in the category Science "D"ictionary was going for? They even gave 'standard' in the clue as a hint. I'm very confident just "deviation" was the expected response.
Would a better way to archive it be:

(Stuart: What is the standard [*]?)

That way only "deviation" shows as the correct response?
You could do that, but then note also that it was accepted after a pause. Otherwise it looks like there is an error in the response toggle crediting Stuart.
I've made the change and added a note.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Newhausen »

AntmanB wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:17 pmOriginally put CNN when Ken Read the Question but realized that CNN probably wasnt around in 79, ended up Putting C-Span with about 5 Seconds Left. But that was a Fairly easy Final.
It wasn't, but not by much - it launched in the middle of 1980.

In fact, since I remembered their recent 40th anniversary celebration, I just assumed that it *had* to be in 1979 and didn't even bother to continue thinking once I thought of it, since it so clearly fit the date hint. Oops. Probably wouldn't have come up with C-SPAN anyway.

Not surprised they accepted "standard deviation", since the operating procedure seems to be to entirely ignore any word in a contestant's response that comes up in a clue and judge it as though they never said that word. It's not in the clue here for that reason, but I guess they don't want to get into a discussion about the way they put leading clues into their clues like that.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

BrigadierSolo13 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:53 am I must also say, future contestants really should prioritize learning the first 5 Roman Emperors just as much as the 7 Wonders, English Royal Houses, etc.

"Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero" isn't too obtuse to remember. The only mnemonic I was able to find with a quick lookup was "Another Tom Cat, Caught Napping", but with just 5 names, you can make one of your own.

The challenge is going beyond the 5 names and learning more about each one, like their years in power and facts about their reign, even past the common "Augustus has a month named after him, Caligula was nuts, Nero fiddled".
I would also add the "Five Good Emperors" : Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Antonius Pius & Marcus Aurelius from 96-180.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

talkingaway wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:16 pm I fell for the negbait of Hillary Clinton for "Madam Secretary". I didn't know Albright was known for her pins, and I've seen her speak - although not about pins. The "jewelbox" association isn't one I would pin on either Clinton or Albright.
Not negbait, just incorrect.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

jeff6286 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:36 am
talkingaway wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:16 pm I fell for the negbait of Hillary Clinton for "Madam Secretary". I didn't know Albright was known for her pins, and I've seen her speak - although not about pins. The "jewelbox" association isn't one I would pin on either Clinton or Albright.
Not negbait, just incorrect.
The conceit of the title Madame Secretary is that the title plays up the novelty of the Madame part, in other words, that the subject is the first female Secretary of State. It's also a fairly defining title, one that would be used by someone who has achieved the highest office likely to be achieved, or to which the subject aspires. Hillary Clinton was neither the first female Secretary of State nor, as someone of presidential ambitions, would she want the Secretary title to have defined her. For either of these reasons one can pretty readily rule out Madame Secretary as a likely title of a Hillary Clinton book.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

Robert K S wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:23 pm
jeff6286 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:36 am
talkingaway wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:16 pm I fell for the negbait of Hillary Clinton for "Madam Secretary". I didn't know Albright was known for her pins, and I've seen her speak - although not about pins. The "jewelbox" association isn't one I would pin on either Clinton or Albright.
Not negbait, just incorrect.
The conceit of the title Madame Secretary is that the title plays up the novelty of the Madame part, in other words, that the subject is the first female Secretary of State. It's also a fairly defining title, one that would be used by someone who has achieved the highest office likely to be achieved, or to which the subject aspires. Hillary Clinton was neither the first female Secretary of State nor, as someone of presidential ambitions, would she want the Secretary title to have defined her. For either of these reasons one can pretty readily rule out Madame Secretary as a likely title of a Hillary Clinton book.
I agree for the reasons mentioned by Robert. I'd say Condi Rice was more negbaity than Hillary Clinton.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

Newhausen wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:38 am
AntmanB wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:17 pmOriginally put CNN when Ken Read the Question but realized that CNN probably wasnt around in 79, ended up Putting C-Span with about 5 Seconds Left. But that was a Fairly easy Final.
It wasn't, but not by much - it launched in the middle of 1980.

In fact, since I remembered their recent 40th anniversary celebration, I just assumed that it *had* to be in 1979 and didn't even bother to continue thinking once I thought of it, since it so clearly fit the date hint. Oops. Probably wouldn't have come up with C-SPAN anyway.

Not surprised they accepted "standard deviation", since the operating procedure seems to be to entirely ignore any word in a contestant's response that comes up in a clue and judge it as though they never said that word. It's not in the clue here for that reason, but I guess they don't want to get into a discussion about the way they put leading clues into their clues like that.
That clue could have been written much better. They obviously couldn't write a clue with "standard deviation" as the correct response, because of the category. Either give the proper definition of SD ("A common measure of the spread of a set of data is the standard THIS"), or give the definition of the less-commonly used "deviation" while negging the standard part ("It may NOT be standard, but in a set of data, this is the difference between one piece of data and its mean.") Or "Don't go astray! In statistics, the square root of variance is called the standard this". Or, "In a statistician's normal curve, about 95% of data points in a set are within 3 standard these of the mean."

The clue/intended response pairing was correct, but a little clunky. I knew what they were going for, got it right in real time without the "standard", but was a little bit confused until I actually reread it in the archive. I don't think they should have accepted "standard deviation", and they had two good reasons - it's technically wrong (it's average of the squares of the deviations, and applies to the entire set), and it's also not part of the category. Saying "What is -a- mouse" for ANI-"M"-ALS is one thing - it's virtually impossible not to add that article in normal speech. Even being cute and saying "What is that mouse" is probably fine. But "What is a house mouse?" Nope. Same for "standard deviation" and "deviation", IMO.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:58 pm
The one time in my life where I took more than a passing interest in the standard deviation was in a college class with some 300 students where the professor graded on a curve. We were told, if I recall, that the mean score on the final would be the lowest possible B- and every standard deviation up or down from that point would increase/decrease the score by half a letter grade. I believe I got an A-, so two st dev above the mean.
If the class scores had a normal distribution, 2 SD above the mean would have put you in the top 2%. Finishing number 6 in a class of 300 and getting an A- instead of an A? That's one tough grading curve.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

This Is Kirk! wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:37 pm
Robert K S wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:23 pm
jeff6286 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:36 am
talkingaway wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:16 pm I fell for the negbait of Hillary Clinton for "Madam Secretary". I didn't know Albright was known for her pins, and I've seen her speak - although not about pins. The "jewelbox" association isn't one I would pin on either Clinton or Albright.
Not negbait, just incorrect.
The conceit of the title Madame Secretary is that the title plays up the novelty of the Madame part, in other words, that the subject is the first female Secretary of State. It's also a fairly defining title, one that would be used by someone who has achieved the highest office likely to be achieved, or to which the subject aspires. Hillary Clinton was neither the first female Secretary of State nor, as someone of presidential ambitions, would she want the Secretary title to have defined her. For either of these reasons one can pretty readily rule out Madame Secretary as a likely title of a Hillary Clinton book.
I agree for the reasons mentioned by Robert. I'd say Condi Rice was more negbaity than Hillary Clinton.
This could be one that has an age bias. For those of a certain age who followed politics on TV 20 years ago, the key in the clue was "pins". Albright was as well known for her pins as Dr. Birx is for scarves. Twenty years from now, though, a clue containing "COVID task force member" and "scarves" would probably be pretty difficult for someone currently in middle school.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

When the Jeopardy round categories were announced, it made me wonder if there were Brewster Rockit fans in the writer's room.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/alien ... 0211021517
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

AFRET CMS wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:31 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:58 pm
The one time in my life where I took more than a passing interest in the standard deviation was in a college class with some 300 students where the professor graded on a curve. We were told, if I recall, that the mean score on the final would be the lowest possible B- and every standard deviation up or down from that point would increase/decrease the score by half a letter grade. I believe I got an A-, so two st dev above the mean.
If the class scores had a normal distribution, 2 SD above the mean would have put you in the top 2%. Finishing number 6 in a class of 300 and getting an A- instead of an A? That's one tough grading curve.
Interesting. It's possible I'm misremembering the details after 32 years. If not, I'm a little prouder of that A- than I was at the time. Assuming I got an A-.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

opusthepenguin wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:13 pm
AFRET CMS wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:31 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:58 pm
The one time in my life where I took more than a passing interest in the standard deviation was in a college class with some 300 students where the professor graded on a curve. We were told, if I recall, that the mean score on the final would be the lowest possible B- and every standard deviation up or down from that point would increase/decrease the score by half a letter grade. I believe I got an A-, so two st dev above the mean.
If the class scores had a normal distribution, 2 SD above the mean would have put you in the top 2%. Finishing number 6 in a class of 300 and getting an A- instead of an A? That's one tough grading curve.
Interesting. It's possible I'm misremembering the details after 32 years. If not, I'm a little prouder of that A- than I was at the time. Assuming I got an A-.
There's this rule:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/68%E2%80% ... 399.7_rule
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

mas3cf wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:59 pm Archive playthrough:

Coryat $42,600 (48R, 1W)
DD 3/3
FJ :mrgreen:

Science $1600... that is most definitely NOT what a standard deviation is. Standard deviation is a measure of the variability of a data set, it does not apply to a single data point. I suspect "deviation" is what they were after, which is a term/concept more seldom heard by the layperson. Standard deviation should be a solid neg, but then you've got a pretty tricky clue for anyone who isn't in the small slice of the population who has had stats and retains more than the most basic terminology.

FJ: name a channel that shows what is going on in Congress...
I watched the show a day late and had to rewind to see the wording of the clue when "standard deviation" was accepted. I expected a reversal, but I didn't detect the pause that other boardies have indicated. Some judge may realize they screwed up and would rather err on the player's side. I doubt if they were looking for the standard deviation.
There's been some excellent follow on discussions, so with nothing to add, I just quoted mas3cf for winning the first post race. I would have struggled with this clue because in my ecosystem I would more likely refer to "delta" or difference if I was labeling a spreadsheet column. But it would also be in context of tolerances and specs, so there's really no direct overlap.

FJ was easy. And I'm glad they don't have cameras in the Supreme Court.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cthulhu »

talkingaway wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:52 pm Or, "In a statistician's normal curve, about 95% of data points in a set are within 3 standard these of the mean."
95 percent for a two tailed normal distribution is 2-sigma; 3-sigma is 99.7%.

Agree the clue was bad, as was the response; the only way I can sorta see not negging it is just that “deviation” was in the response :roll:
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

My favorite C-SPAN story (I could have told it, but this is from an article by Jarret Bencks):

In 1984, Newt Gingrich, Republican from Georgia, a backbencher in the U.S. House of Representatives, wasn’t getting the attention of his party’s leadership. But he had an idea.

C-SPAN was a sleepy nonprofit cable channel that had launched five years earlier. Though few people watched it, it was broadcasting congressional proceedings in their entirety. So at the end of every day, Gingrich took to the floor of Congress not to propose legislation, but to accuse Democrats of corruption in front of the C-SPAN cameras. Sometimes he attacked fellow legislators by name and asked them to respond.

If you were watching C-SPAN, you noticed the lack of response. But what you couldn’t see was that the House chamber was entirely empty.

During one such speech, Speaker of the House Tip O’Neill insisted that the camera pointed at the podium pan the deserted chamber. Gingrich seized the moment to argue the speaker was violating the rules, calling it further proof the Democrats were corrupt. After O’Neill responded a few days later in a speech of his own, Republicans said the speaker was out of order and had his remarks stricken from the record.

No legislation was passed, but Gingrich got what he wanted: All the major TV networks were covering his dispute with O’Neill.
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

cthulhu wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:44 pm
talkingaway wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:52 pm Or, "In a statistician's normal curve, about 95% of data points in a set are within 3 standard these of the mean."
95 percent for a two tailed normal distribution is 2-sigma; 3-sigma is 99.7%.

Agree the clue was bad, as was the response; the only way I can sorta see not negging it is just that “deviation” was in the response :roll:
Not negging it is like not negging this:

"You can put whipped this on top of your pie along with chocolate shavings."
"What is shaving cream?"
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by rockyboy34 »

A nice 3-fer in DJ! and FJ! (by the contestants).
8/10 (B+)

P.S. Yeah, I said CNN as well. :(
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

59 R (Missed Oscar Isaac.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :(
LT: Tiberius, Plains of Abraham, Jersey Boys, Stone Age, Romans, Pleistocene, Black Stone, Shakespeare Sonnets, Song of Myself
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:41 pm 59 R (Missed Oscar Isaac.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :(
LT: Tiberius, Plains of Abraham, Jersey Boys, Stone Age, Romans, Pleistocene, Black Stone, Shakespeare Sonnets, Song of Myself
First FJ! miss of not just 2021 but Season 37?
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Re: Thursday, February 4, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

MarkBarrett wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:23 pm
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:41 pm 59 R (Missed Oscar Isaac.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :(
LT: Tiberius, Plains of Abraham, Jersey Boys, Stone Age, Romans, Pleistocene, Black Stone, Shakespeare Sonnets, Song of Myself
First FJ! miss of not just 2021 but Season 37?
I think so.
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