Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Robert K S
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

A post to Kelly's Facebook states the following. (It doesn't address the Sinatra pic.)
I’m truly horrified with what has been posted about me on social media. I absolutely, unequivocally condemn white supremacy and racism of any kind. People who know me personally know that I am not a racist, but for the public at large it bears repeating: I am not a racist and I reject and condemn white supremacy and all forms of bigotry for the evil they are. It’s shameful to me to think anyone would try to use the stage of Jeopardy! to advance or promote such a disgusting agenda. During the taping of my fourth episode, I was simply raising three fingers to mark my 3rd win. There was nothing more I was trying to indicate.

I deeply regret this terrible misunderstanding. I never meant to hurt a soul and I assure you I am no friend of racists or white supremacists.
I removed the previous post because the comments were more than I could bear. I stand by the statement itself and you can find it reported in other media. I did, however, understand the fair criticism that I did not include a forceful condemnation of white supremacy in my initial statement. I hope my feelings on that matter are clear now.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

I'm glad to see he issued a more forceful condemnation.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by sarisson »

He could donate all his winnings to the ADL or Black Lives Matter or another anti-hate organization, and some contestants would still accuse him of being a white supremacist.
In 37 seasons of the show's history, has there ever been a controversy with even 1/10th the magnitude of this? I know James made the S in his signature into a lightning bolt one day, but that got little reaction, at least compared to the other conspiracy theories floating around about him.
Jeopardy needs a new rule banning any kind of hand gestures. They also could've written the clue differently so an offensive word would not be an acceptable answer. They've had clues about the old name of the Washington Football Team, which most people know is an offensive word.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Ironhorse »

The use of the Romany slur falls more on the show for not editing it out than him. Not everybody is aware it is a slur, but the producers had no excuse.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

Ironhorse wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:34 am
The use of the Romany slur falls more on the show for not editing it out than him. Not everybody is aware it is a slur, but the producers had no excuse.
Agreed. Just write the question such that "gypsies" wouldn't be an expected response.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:46 am
Ironhorse wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:34 am
The use of the Romany slur falls more on the show for not editing it out than him. Not everybody is aware it is a slur, but the producers had no excuse.
Agreed. Just write the question such that "gypsies" wouldn't be an expected response.
Or just not have it at all.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

Bamaman wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:46 am
Ironhorse wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:34 am
The use of the Romany slur falls more on the show for not editing it out than him. Not everybody is aware it is a slur, but the producers had no excuse.
Agreed. Just write the question such that "gypsies" wouldn't be an expected response.
Or just not have it at all.
I think it's a different kind of problematic to decide not to ask interesting questions about an entire ethnic group because we can't manage the task of not referring to them with an ethnic slur.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo »

Ugh I never want to hear about this guy again. I thought we were done with him when he lost on Tuesday

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Robert K S wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:41 am
A post to Kelly's Facebook states the following. (It doesn't address the Sinatra pic.)
I’m truly horrified with what has been posted about me on social media. I absolutely, unequivocally condemn white supremacy and racism of any kind. People who know me personally know that I am not a racist, but for the public at large it bears repeating: I am not a racist and I reject and condemn white supremacy and all forms of bigotry for the evil they are. It’s shameful to me to think anyone would try to use the stage of Jeopardy! to advance or promote such a disgusting agenda. During the taping of my fourth episode, I was simply raising three fingers to mark my 3rd win. There was nothing more I was trying to indicate.

I deeply regret this terrible misunderstanding. I never meant to hurt a soul and I assure you I am no friend of racists or white supremacists.
I removed the previous post because the comments were more than I could bear. I stand by the statement itself and you can find it reported in other media. I did, however, understand the fair criticism that I did not include a forceful condemnation of white supremacy in my initial statement. I hope my feelings on that matter are clear now.
Thanks for this. I was hoping it was the case and surprised that so many seemed willing to draw conclusions so quickly. Might be a question for the weekly poll here: I recognized Kelly's hand gesture as potentially a white power signal when he made it. I.e. you didn't have to be told by someone else. The thought immediately occurred to you. I think it would poll quite low since no one on the board brought it up until it had turned into a controversy out there in the unsafe non-JBoard section of the net. Once I read about the controversy, I did vaguely recall that I'd heard this about the OK sign before. But it was easy to believe that one possibility was that Kelly, like everyone or almost everyone on this board, had no idea how his particular configuration of fingers was sometimes interpreted.

Once Kelly made his explanation, it definitely seemed plausible. Like others I noted that he didn't take the opportunity to vigorously denounce white power movements. But I also knew there were various possible explanations for that. Cluelessness about how big a deal this had become and thinking it was just a funny misunderstanding, easily cleared up. Getting his back up about the idea of being forced to take a loyalty oath in front of jerks who had jumped the gun to make vile accusations. Whatever.

What's wrong with the Sinatra pic? I suppose for the sake of optics, it might be wise to switch to Sammy Davis Jr for a while. But I don't think he's obligated to do anything since he did nothing wrong. And he's already paid dearly by having to face a savage mob with torches and pitchforks intent on lynching him before hearing what he had to say. Every single person who publicly accused him should post an equally forceful public apology. Maybe those people can donate to ADL or BLM as a sign of contrition. I don't think Kelly needs to.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am
I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
Well that’s great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

jeff6286 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:51 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am
I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
Well that’s great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't think it's one thing or the other for me. It's just my understanding. It would appear to be the understanding of TPTB at Jeopardy at this point as well since they're willing to accept "gypsy" as a correct response. If someone wants to convince me (and them) that that this should change, I'm open to that. I'm open to not using the OK symbol anymore as well and not wearing my aloha shirts. But it's going to take more than a few declarative statements to make me change.

You're already convinced. That's great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mikebdoss »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm

I don't think it's one thing or the other for me. It's just my understanding. It would appear to be the understanding of TPTB at Jeopardy at this point as well since they're willing to accept "gypsy" as a correct response. If someone wants to convince me (and them) that that this should change, I'm open to that. I'm open to not using the OK symbol anymore as well and not wearing my aloha shirts. But it's going to take more than a few declarative statements to make me change.

You're already convinced. That's great for you, I guess? :roll: :roll: :roll:
It's a pretty new cultural development to call out the use of "gypsy" as a slur (well, new on the level it's currently being seen - it's been an issue for many people for a long time), so it's obvious that not everyone is on board yet. It's similar to the use of "retarded" as a slur - it wasn't originally intended as such, but it became a slur over time. We're still in the "educate before you condemn" stage of calling out that kind of usage, culturally.

The show should absolutely not had a clue where contestants had to choose which word to use. One of my big Jeopardy fears if I ever get on the show is that I'd embarrass myself that way.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm
...Might be a question for the weekly poll here: I recognized Kelly's hand gesture as potentially a white power signal when he made it. I.e. you didn't have to be told by someone else. The thought immediately occurred to you. I think it would poll quite low since no one on the board brought it up until it had turned into a controversy out there in the unsafe non-JBoard section of the net.
Counter request, don’t bring this up in the poll.
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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am
I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
I have American friends of Roma descent who strongly disagree. When you know better, you do better.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm
But I don't think he's obligated to do anything since he did nothing wrong. And he's already paid dearly by having to face a savage mob with torches and pitchforks intent on lynching him before hearing what he had to say. Every single person who publicly accused him should post an equally forceful public apology. Maybe those people can donate to ADL or BLM as a sign of contrition. I don't think Kelly needs to.
I'm happy he wrote a more forceful repudiation of white supremacy, but I think it's also worth pointing out that the Three Percenters claim to not be a white supremacist organization, so his statement doesn't preclude involvement with that group.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:18 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm
But I don't think he's obligated to do anything since he did nothing wrong. And he's already paid dearly by having to face a savage mob with torches and pitchforks intent on lynching him before hearing what he had to say. Every single person who publicly accused him should post an equally forceful public apology. Maybe those people can donate to ADL or BLM as a sign of contrition. I don't think Kelly needs to.
I'm happy he wrote a more forceful repudiation of white supremacy, but I think it's also worth pointing out that the Three Percenters claim to not be a white supremacist organization, so his statement doesn't preclude involvement with that group.
You sure know a lot about the 3 Percenters. Something you want to tell us all?

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:19 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:18 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm
But I don't think he's obligated to do anything since he did nothing wrong. And he's already paid dearly by having to face a savage mob with torches and pitchforks intent on lynching him before hearing what he had to say. Every single person who publicly accused him should post an equally forceful public apology. Maybe those people can donate to ADL or BLM as a sign of contrition. I don't think Kelly needs to.
I'm happy he wrote a more forceful repudiation of white supremacy, but I think it's also worth pointing out that the Three Percenters claim to not be a white supremacist organization, so his statement doesn't preclude involvement with that group.
You sure know a lot about the 3 Percenters. Something you want to tell us all?
There's this thing called Google, Myron.

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

brick wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:05 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am
I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
I have American friends of Roma descent who strongly disagree. When you know better, you do better.
Do they believe that Americans who use the demonym are consciously using it in a derogatory manner? Or do they think most of us are unconsciously using a term that they have come to regard as a racial slur? How long have they felt this way? Would their parents or grandparents have self-identified as gypsy?

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Re: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:20 pm
brick wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:05 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 am
I really don't think "gypsy" is a slur in American English.
I have American friends of Roma descent who strongly disagree. When you know better, you do better.
Do they believe that Americans who use the demonym are consciously using it in a derogatory manner? Or do they think most of us are unconsciously using a term that they have come to regard as a racial slur? How long have they felt this way? Would their parents or grandparents have self-identified as gypsy?
Only you’re clearly not doing it unconsciously because we’re sitting here having the conversation and it’s been made known to you multiple times and yet you’re just going to keep right on saying you don’t see a problem with the word?

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