Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 6668
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

Game 1 J! Round
Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 6668
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

Game 1 DJ! Round
Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 6668
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

Game 2 J! Round
Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 6668
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

Game 2 DJ! Round
theFJguy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2082
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by theFJguy »

Game 1:

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
AFRICA

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
A major seaport & formerly a world capital, a this city has a name from Arabic for "house of peace"

James Holzhauer 22400+11914=34314
Matt Amodio 6000+6000=12000
Mattea Roach 16800+8000=24800

Correct response:
Spoiler
What is Dar-es-Salaam?
Daily Doubles
James: 0-1000
James: 8600+8600
Mattea: 7200+7200

Coryats:
James: 15600
Matt: 6000
Mattea: 11600

Combined: 33,200

Scores at the end of the Jeopardy! Round
James: 4600
Matt: 4400
Mattea: 3600

Game 2:

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
LATIN IN LITERATURE

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
A work by this 15th-century English writer quotes the phrase "rex quondam rexque futurus"

James Holzhauer 9600-119=9481+34314=43795 ($500,000)
Matt Amodio 3200-0=3200+12000=15200 ($150,000)
Mattea Roach 22800-5915=16885+24800=41685 ($250,000)

Correct response:
Spoiler
Who is Thomas Malory? (James - Who is T H White) (Matt - Who … will …. Win?!?!?!) (Mattea - Who is Chaucer?)
Daily Doubles
James: 0-1000
Mattea: 7400+7400
Matt: 4600-4600

Coryats:
James: 10600
Matt: 7800
Mattea: 17400

Combined: 35,800

Scores at the end of the Jeopardy! Round
James: 5600
Matt: 1800
Mattea: 4600
Last edited by theFJguy on Wed May 24, 2023 9:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

Code: Select all

James:  34314  9600 43914 53514
Matt:   12000  3200 15200 18400
Mattea: 24800 22800 47600 70400
Mattea: Bet 5,915 to cover James.
James: You can win if Mattea misses, regardless of whether you get it. Bet less than 2,229.
Matt: You are superlocked into third place. Bet what you want.
Last edited by seaborgium on Thu May 25, 2023 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MinnesotaMyron
JBOARDIE OF THE MONTH!
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:53 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

Congrats to Mattea for making it a close enough game that I actually turned on the TV and watched the last 15 minutes live.

Got both FJs today.

FJGuy, the scores may be points, but the prizes were, as Ken put it, American dollars.
User avatar
floridagator
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:39 am

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

Holy folx, that was something. I was thinking Milton as the last major writer to use Latin but then thought that was too easy. The contestants were able to keep the Daily Doubles away from James in order to have some suspense in the thing.
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.
theFJguy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2082
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by theFJguy »

MinnesotaMyron wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:04 pm FJGuy, the scores may be points, but the prizes were, as Ken put it, American dollars.
Fixed, thank you.
Golf
Wet Paper Bag Charmer
Posts: 2727
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf »

The last FJ scenario was exactly the same as when James lost to Emma. Emma didn't see the opening and neither did Mattea tonight. It didn't cost Emma, it cost Mattea.

We know for absolute certainty James is going to wager GTO optimal in this situation. He knows that if Mattea answers correctly it's all over but if they miss he's going to wager to win every time. In short he's going to wager nothing or next to it. Guaranteed.

Since this is a known fact, in both situations a 0 wager locks up a win. Emma didn't see it and I didn't expect her to. I thought Mattea had a chance to realize it and even though I'm a James fan, I was hoping they would. But they did not.

Expecting a Jeopardy contestant to wager GTO is a very rare occurrence. One could do so with Arthur Chu yet nobody figured out to wager everything from 2nd and get the tie. Just like one can always count on James to do the same, yet neither contestant adapted correctly. I can probably count on one hand the other known contestants I would trust enough to do so and wager accordingly.

James was the best player by far, he deserved to win. But we all know that before the tournament started. You still gotta play the games though.


Interesting on the 2nd FJ that apparently nobody attempted to translate the Latin, but seemingly focused on possible 15th century authors. Pretty easy to figure out rex and futurus. But it's always easier from the couch.
Last edited by Golf on Wed May 24, 2023 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
AndyTheQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada
Contact:

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AndyTheQuizzer »

Golf:

The show has been using they/them pronouns with Mattea the entire tournament.
Andy Saunders
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Publisher - The Jeopardy! Fan
OrchidEntity
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:00 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OrchidEntity »

Did James deserve to win? Yes.

Did I believe he was going to win from before the games were even taped? Yes.

Did I start to feel myself get a little competitive near the end, culminating in wanting to see Mattea take home the title? Yes.
"Everything ends. Life goes on. I'll be gone. So will you. So hug people tightly. Take joy in their heartbeats and drink something cold and go play in the shade. That is all." -Bob Harris, Prisoner of Trebekistan
-
I post whatever (but mostly mushrooms and nature stuff) on Bluesky.
User avatar
squarekara
J! Reactionary
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:49 am
Location: USDA Zone 5

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by squarekara »

Golf wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:13 pm Interesting on the 2nd FJ that apparently nobody attempted to translate the Latin, but seemingly focused on possible 15th century authors.
James named the 20th century author of The Once and Future King, so whether or not he interpreted the clue correctly, he clearly knew the Latin.
Golf
Wet Paper Bag Charmer
Posts: 2727
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf »

OntarioQuizzer wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:18 pm Golf:

The show has been using they/them pronouns with Mattea the entire tournament.
Yep, post edited. Thanks.

squarekara wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:38 pm
Golf wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:13 pm Interesting on the 2nd FJ that apparently nobody attempted to translate the Latin, but seemingly focused on possible 15th century authors.
James named the 20th century author of The Once and Future King, so whether or not he interpreted the clue correctly, he clearly knew the Latin.
Thanks for that bit of info, I learned something new and stand corrected on the Latin.
User avatar
cf1140
Not Jeopardy! Material
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cf1140 »

Is reddit going to criticize the host for not connecting James response to The Once and Future King? Clearly the host is not cut out for this job.
User avatar
jeff6286
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 5228
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

cf1140 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:53 pm Is reddit going to criticize the host for not connecting James response to The Once and Future King? Clearly the host is not cut out for this job.
Maybe he didn't want to rub in the fact that James's answer was off by 5 centuries? Not sure but it's a theory.
User avatar
jeff6286
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 5228
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

Golf wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:13 pm The last FJ scenario was exactly the same as when James lost to Emma. Emma didn't see the opening and neither did Mattea tonight. It didn't cost Emma, it cost Mattea.

We know for absolute certainty James is going to wager GTO optimal in this situation. He knows that if Mattea answers correctly it's all over but if they miss he's going to wager to win every time. In short he's going to wager nothing or next to it. Guaranteed.

Since this is a known fact, in both situations a 0 wager locks up a win. Emma didn't see it and I didn't expect her to. I thought Mattea had a chance to realize it and even though I'm a James fan, I was hoping they would. But they did not.

Expecting a Jeopardy contestant to wager GTO is a very rare occurrence. One could do so with Arthur Chu yet nobody figured out to wager everything from 2nd and get the tie. Just like one can always count on James to do the same, yet neither contestant adapted correctly. I can probably count on one hand the other known contestants I would trust enough to do so and wager accordingly.
I didn't see you on Monday's thread but did you know with absolute certainty that James was going to wager GTO in that game?
Bob78164
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:52 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bob78164 »

Golf wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:13 pmThe last FJ scenario was exactly the same as when James lost to Emma. Emma didn't see the opening and neither did Mattea tonight. It didn't cost Emma, it cost Mattea.

We know for absolute certainty James is going to wager GTO optimal in this situation. He knows that if Mattea answers correctly it's all over but if they miss he's going to wager to win every time. In short he's going to wager nothing or next to it. Guaranteed.

Since this is a known fact, in both situations a 0 wager locks up a win. Emma didn't see it and I didn't expect her to. I thought Mattea had a chance to realize it and even though I'm a James fan, I was hoping they would. But they did not.

Expecting a Jeopardy contestant to wager GTO is a very rare occurrence. One could do so with Arthur Chu yet nobody figured out to wager everything from 2nd and get the tie. Just like one can always count on James to do the same, yet neither contestant adapted correctly. I can probably count on one hand the other known contestants I would trust enough to do so and wager accordingly.

James was the best player by far, he deserved to win. But we all know that before the tournament started. You still gotta play the games though.


Interesting on the 2nd FJ that apparently nobody attempted to translate the Latin, but seemingly focused on possible 15th century authors. Pretty easy to figure out rex and futurus. But it's always easier from the couch.
In this situation, there is no Nash equilibrium in pure strategies. Thus, "game theory optimal" is some probabilistic combination of wagers. If that's truly what James is doing, there's no way to be certain what he will wager -- that's the point of using a mixed strategy. --Bob
User avatar
MarkBarrett
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 16472
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:37 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

Ken got his laughs with apologizing to James about the SO YOU THINK YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD AT THIS being about great upsets and the audience roared with the George Santos crack.

James hit both DD1s with one shot. And then he missed both of them. The Einstein capital city was a head-scratcher to wonder what was going through (or not going through) his head to miss that.

As someone alive in 1964 I got THE 1960s DD1 that once again dropped James into the red to start the match.

The AFRICA FJ! clue was a fail on my part as I did "house" to "casa" and never had the common sense to bring "white" into my thinking or "peace". The players were all over it so quickly I don't viewers saw anyone writing.

James got smoked by Mattea in game 2 with or without their big DD hit. A 10600 Coryat by the overall winner? Very surprising as too much of the material seem to get the best of James.

The FJ! clue had me know enough to work out "king" & "future". From there I ended the Masters on a high note getting one the players did not get right. I have none doubt that Ken would have got it right.

The wager reveals had me expecting low by James while I thought it was possible Mattea might try banking their $47,600 and rolling the dice.

Seeing James win had me kind of torn as I figured he would win, as soon as the six were announced, while appreciating how well Mattea played to almost take the title.

Try it again next year. I would expect to see Sam K. and the 2023 ToC winner in the JiT. J! All Stars has plenty of classic alums to choose from and I would put Emma B. on a short list as well.
User avatar
MinnesotaMyron
JBOARDIE OF THE MONTH!
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:53 pm

Re: Masters Wednesday, May 24, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

During the final hugs, I'm pretty sure I heard someone say, "I'm proud of you." I assume this was James to Mattea. Can anyone confirm?
Post Reply